2022 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints

AsylumGuido · 04-12-2021, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

God Help Us if everyone begins running their lives based on polling, tribalism...

Besides, the aggregate history is proving my point to be correct...

What is the supposed aggregate history that you claim proves your point?

The Payton/Loomis era is far and away the most successful in franchise history.

jeanpierre · 04-12-2021, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I’m one who has said an amount of luck is needed to win the Super Bowl and I stand by that statement. But I sure as heck wasn’t saying it to give anyone “cover” as you put it. I say it because it’s the damn truth. A number of factors outside of your control like bad calls or injuries or having a dick for a commissioner can pop up to derail a super bowl caliber team from winning it all in a season. KC was unlucky in that they had injuries this past season with loosing two starting O lineman late in the year. Tampa was lucky that their injuries happened earlier in the season and they were very healthy heading into the playoffs. That’s not an excuse, it’s an observation of fact.

I also don’t see how trying to win it all when you have a HOF QB costs you draft picks. Are you saying they should not have traded up to get Kamara for example?

When you're using multiple picks to improve one position, you're now unable to improve others...

Regarding Kamara, trading a second the following year for a third round pick this year is one thing when you know the player is a hit, and you get him a year early...

Trading multiple picks is what I've criticized:

Mark Ingram (rookie contract) cost a second and a first - he never had 1000 RuYds / Season on his rookie contract; hated the pick, loved the free agent...

Marcus Davenport cost two first round picks and a fifth - we're still waiting on that breakout (healthy) season...

Vonn Bell cost us two, three draft picks as one of the picks traded could have been used to take David Onyemata, who also took two picks to make for his selection...

Erik McCoy cost two seconds, and a sixth; actually one of the less costly investments...

jeanpierre · 04-12-2021, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

What is the supposed aggregate history that you claim proves your point?

The Payton/Loomis era is far and away the most successful in franchise history.

Most Saints fans know the history, should they get a pass for their gaffes because of the Superbowl win?

AsylumGuido · 04-12-2021, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Most Saints fans know the history, should they get a pass for their gaffes because of the Superbowl win?

What gaffes?

Their guidance gave the Saints the best opportunities in franchise history to compete for a chance at winning it all. Only one team can win it all in any given year and it takes fortunate bounces here or there to make that happen.

saintsfan1976 · 04-12-2021, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

And the money spent on those free agents, would you say we got our bang for the buck?

Payton failed to utilized Latavius Murray and Emmanuel Sanders...

Malcolm Jenkins blew so many plays such as missed tackles, blown coverage, dropped INTs at SS, despite getting a winning lottery ticket in Gardner...

Jared Cook was turned the ball over or dropped a catch on some of the most crucial plays...

About the only Free Agent who worked out well was JackRabbit - and we just had to let him go because...we were over the cap...

You have to leave a lil cushion for those Black Swan Events otherwise they prove costly...

JP, I'll bet there are just as many FA wins as there were losses. Every team goes through them. Heck, we had bad contracts on our Superbowl Team so it happens regardless.

jeanpierre · 04-12-2021, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

What gaffes?

Their guidance gave the Saints the best opportunities in franchise history to compete for a chance at winning it all. Only one team can win it all in any given year and it takes fortunate bounces here or there to make that happen.

So the Patriots and the Ravens are just really lucky? No skill or preparation, knowledge?

#GTFOH

The question is - should they get a pass?

jeanpierre · 04-12-2021, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

JP, I'll bet there are just as many FA wins as there were losses. Every team goes through them. Heck, we had bad contracts on our Superbowl Team so it happens regardless.

'76, go through the moves the past years, analyze them, let me know what you come up with as I see crucial moves, but moves that also limited their ceiling...

Saving grace has been some hits in the mid-rounds in the draft and with UDFA rookies...

AsylumGuido · 04-12-2021, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

So the Patriots and the Ravens are just really lucky? No skill or preparation, knowledge?

#GTFOH

Yes. The Patriots were lucky that they were in a sorry division that allowed them a guaranteed entry into the postseason some 16 out of 18 years. They also had the greatest QB of all time. Then again, ten of those 16 years were failures based upon your apparent definition of not winning it all. So that means Belichick sucked more years than not, right?

Baltimore had their own breaks along the way. Yes, it takes skill, and preparation, and knowledge. But it also take the right series of fortunate events. The Saints have had the skill, preparation, and knowledge required, but came up short due to untimely injuries, questionable (blatantly wrong) calls and a singular bad play here or there. That's NOT on Loomis or Payton. That's just how the cookie crumbles.

AsylumGuido · 04-12-2021, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

So the Patriots and the Ravens are just really lucky? No skill or preparation, knowledge?

#GTFOH

The question is - should they get a pass?

Get a pass for what? I don't get where you are coming from on this. Do they (Payton/Loomis) need a pass for being in arguably the best division in the NFC for most of their tenure? They are getting no pass nor do they deserve any pass. The condemnation apparently exists mostly in your point of view.

Boston Saint · 04-12-2021, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

When you're using multiple picks to improve one position, you're now unable to improve others...

Regarding Kamara, trading a second the following year for a third round pick this year is one thing when you know the player is a hit, and you get him a year early...

Trading multiple picks is what I've criticized:

Mark Ingram (rookie contract) cost a second and a first - he never had 1000 RuYds / Season on his rookie contract; hated the pick, loved the free agent...

Marcus Davenport cost two first round picks and a fifth - we're still waiting on that breakout (healthy) season...

Vonn Bell cost us two, three draft picks as one of the picks traded could have been used to take David Onyemata, who also took two picks to make for his selection...

Erik McCoy cost two seconds, and a sixth; actually one of the less costly investments...

You are using hindsight to criticize. Did the Chiefs make a mistake trading up to get Mahomes? And as far as free agency, do the names Fleener, Meridith, Byrd, and Bailey ring any bells. FA signings are as risky as drafting. And trading up to get the second all time leading rusher in franchise history is hardly a mistake. You can try to knock it by dividing his career into draft vs free agent years but that’s nonsense. I’m in no way saying the saints have made every decision correct by any means. But you seem to be saying they’ve made every one wrong.

04-12-2021, 12:39 PM	#511
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by jeanpierre God Help Us if everyone begins running their lives based on polling, tribalism... Besides, the aggregate history is proving my point to be correct... What is the supposed aggregate history that you claim proves your point? The Payton/Loomis era is far and away the most successful in franchise history.

04-12-2021, 12:45 PM	#512
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by Boston Saint I’m one who has said an amount of luck is needed to win the Super Bowl and I stand by that statement. But I sure as heck wasn’t saying it to give anyone “cover” as you put it. I say it because it’s the damn truth. A number of factors outside of your control like bad calls or injuries or having a dick for a commissioner can pop up to derail a super bowl caliber team from winning it all in a season. KC was unlucky in that they had injuries this past season with loosing two starting O lineman late in the year. Tampa was lucky that their injuries happened earlier in the season and they were very healthy heading into the playoffs. That’s not an excuse, it’s an observation of fact. I also don’t see how trying to win it all when you have a HOF QB costs you draft picks. Are you saying they should not have traded up to get Kamara for example? When you're using multiple picks to improve one position, you're now unable to improve others... Regarding Kamara, trading a second the following year for a third round pick this year is one thing when you know the player is a hit, and you get him a year early... Trading multiple picks is what I've criticized: Mark Ingram (rookie contract) cost a second and a first - he never had 1000 RuYds / Season on his rookie contract; hated the pick, loved the free agent... Marcus Davenport cost two first round picks and a fifth - we're still waiting on that breakout (healthy) season... Vonn Bell cost us two, three draft picks as one of the picks traded could have been used to take David Onyemata, who also took two picks to make for his selection... Erik McCoy cost two seconds, and a sixth; actually one of the less costly investments... saintsfan1976 and K Major like this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

04-12-2021, 12:47 PM	#513
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by AsylumGuido What is the supposed aggregate history that you claim proves your point? The Payton/Loomis era is far and away the most successful in franchise history. Most Saints fans know the history, should they get a pass for their gaffes because of the Superbowl win?

04-12-2021, 12:55 PM	#514
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by jeanpierre Most Saints fans know the history, should they get a pass for their gaffes because of the Superbowl win? What gaffes? Their guidance gave the Saints the best opportunities in franchise history to compete for a chance at winning it all. Only one team can win it all in any given year and it takes fortunate bounces here or there to make that happen.

04-12-2021, 02:53 PM	#515
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,543 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by jeanpierre And the money spent on those free agents, would you say we got our bang for the buck? Payton failed to utilized Latavius Murray and Emmanuel Sanders... Malcolm Jenkins blew so many plays such as missed tackles, blown coverage, dropped INTs at SS, despite getting a winning lottery ticket in Gardner... Jared Cook was turned the ball over or dropped a catch on some of the most crucial plays... About the only Free Agent who worked out well was JackRabbit - and we just had to let him go because...we were over the cap... You have to leave a lil cushion for those Black Swan Events otherwise they prove costly... JP, I'll bet there are just as many FA wins as there were losses. Every team goes through them. Heck, we had bad contracts on our Superbowl Team so it happens regardless.

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04-12-2021, 03:34 PM	#516
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by AsylumGuido What gaffes? Their guidance gave the Saints the best opportunities in franchise history to compete for a chance at winning it all. Only one team can win it all in any given year and it takes fortunate bounces here or there to make that happen. So the Patriots and the Ravens are just really lucky? No skill or preparation, knowledge? *#GTFOH* The question is - should they get a pass?
	Last edited by jeanpierre; 04-12-2021 at 04:06 PM..

04-12-2021, 03:36 PM	#517
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 JP, I'll bet there are just as many FA wins as there were losses. Every team goes through them. Heck, we had bad contracts on our Superbowl Team so it happens regardless. '76, go through the moves the past years, analyze them, let me know what you come up with as I see crucial moves, but moves that also limited their ceiling... Saving grace has been some hits in the mid-rounds in the draft and with UDFA rookies... saintsfan1976 likes this.

04-12-2021, 04:07 PM	#518
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by jeanpierre So the Patriots and the Ravens are just really lucky? No skill or preparation, knowledge? *#GTFOH* Yes. The Patriots were lucky that they were in a sorry division that allowed them a guaranteed entry into the postseason some 16 out of 18 years. They also had the greatest QB of all time. Then again, ten of those 16 years were failures based upon your apparent definition of not winning it all. So that means Belichick sucked more years than not, right? Baltimore had their own breaks along the way. Yes, it takes skill, and preparation, and knowledge. But it also take the right series of fortunate events. The Saints have had the skill, preparation, and knowledge required, but came up short due to untimely injuries, questionable (blatantly wrong) calls and a singular bad play here or there. That's NOT on Loomis or Payton. That's just how the cookie crumbles.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

04-12-2021, 04:20 PM	#519
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by jeanpierre So the Patriots and the Ravens are just really lucky? No skill or preparation, knowledge? *#GTFOH* The question is - should they get a pass? Get a pass for what? I don't get where you are coming from on this. Do they (Payton/Loomis) need a pass for being in arguably the best division in the NFC for most of their tenure? They are getting no pass nor do they deserve any pass. The condemnation apparently exists mostly in your point of view.

04-12-2021, 04:32 PM	#520
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,875	Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by jeanpierre When you're using multiple picks to improve one position, you're now unable to improve others... Regarding Kamara, trading a second the following year for a third round pick this year is one thing when you know the player is a hit, and you get him a year early... Trading multiple picks is what I've criticized: Mark Ingram (rookie contract) cost a second and a first - he never had 1000 RuYds / Season on his rookie contract; hated the pick, loved the free agent... Marcus Davenport cost two first round picks and a fifth - we're still waiting on that breakout (healthy) season... Vonn Bell cost us two, three draft picks as one of the picks traded could have been used to take David Onyemata, who also took two picks to make for his selection... Erik McCoy cost two seconds, and a sixth; actually one of the less costly investments... You are using hindsight to criticize. Did the Chiefs make a mistake trading up to get Mahomes? And as far as free agency, do the names Fleener, Meridith, Byrd, and Bailey ring any bells. FA signings are as risky as drafting. And trading up to get the second all time leading rusher in franchise history is hardly a mistake. You can try to knock it by dividing his career into draft vs free agent years but that’s nonsense. I’m in no way saying the saints have made every decision correct by any means. But you seem to be saying they’ve made every one wrong. AsylumGuido likes this.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora