Head Coach Search

saintsfan1976 · 02-03-2022, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

They are facing the reality that any rule/legislation/law made to promote equality by favoring one racial group over another is, by definition, unfair and unequal and will have consequences.

Flores “case” is proof of that. Because of the rule put in to try to artificially enforce an increase in black head coaches, Flores felt he was used as prop. Without the Rooney rule he may or may not have gotten a call from the Giants for an interview but he at least would have known if the interest was legit or a sham.

I also think the Giants should be able to hire whomever they want as HC (or anywhere else). Organizations that don’t want to take advantage of Black coaching talent would suffer the consequences. Long term successful organizations like the Steelers and Ravens whose coach/GM happen to be Black will take advantage and lead the way for others. But it is best to happen organically over time rather than by decree. Just like there are few Black Head coaches now, there were few Black QBs in the 70s and 80s when I grew up. Now, I don’t think there is any racial barrier for a Black QB and that happened naturally. The coaching situation will work itself out as well.

That’s just my opinions on things. I know it’s a touchy subject and I do not mean to offend anyone. Myself I want Winston back at QB and I’d by fine with Leftwich as a Head Coach, so I don’t think I have a bias. I would NOT want Flores though because it seems like he’s looking for one.

If I were someone in Flores situation I'd probably be pissed that I had to fly all over the country to meet with an organization that was never interested in me

AsylumGuido · 02-03-2022, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

If I were someone in Flores situation I'd probably be pissed that I had to fly all over the country to meet with an organization that was never interested in me

I would be surprised if that didn't urge on the filing a bit.

Boston Saint · 02-03-2022, 09:02 AM

Here is another point I was mulling in my mind. I hear the line
repeated that Because 70% of the league is made up of Black players that means that the head coaching ranks is under represented by Black coaches.

Now, that implies there is A correlation between being a successful NFL head coach and the coache’s playing career. With that implication in mind, I
will point out that the following Coaches:

Bill Walsh
Bill Parcells
Bill Belichick
Sean Payton
Mike Tomlin

Whom I consider in my list of top coaches ever have not played a single , regular season snap among them. Payton played strike games and Parcels was a pre season camp body for Detroit. I’m sure there are others I’m missing. But it Sort of makes one question the value/need of being a NFL player when it comes to being an NFL coach. Just a thought.

In fact, the best I can come with as a connection is Ditka who won a SB as coach and was a ball of fame TE.

Boston Saint · 02-03-2022, 09:19 AM

But that is not the fault of the organization but rather the rule they are made to follow. The gripe is against the rule that was put in place to “fix” the inequity that is believed Black candidates face. It’s a catch 22.

AsylumGuido · 02-03-2022, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

But that is not the fault of the organization but rather the rule they are made to follow. The gripe is against the rule that was put in place to “fix” the inequity that is believed Black candidates face. It’s a catch 22.

Yup. The rule definitely has its faults. That's for sure. But it is the fault of the organization if they ignore the rule altogether as has been a point of complaint for years, don't you think?

If a rule states that an employer must interview two applicants prior to hiring either of them, and the employer hires the first interviewee prior to holding an interview with the other has the employer violated the rule? Yes or no?

Boston Saint · 02-03-2022, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Yup. The rule definitely has its faults. That's for sure. But it is the fault of the organization if they ignore the rule altogether as has been a point of complaint for years, don't you think?

If a rule states that an employer must interview two applicants prior to hiring either of them, and the employer hires the first interviewee prior to holding an interview with the other has the employer violated the rule? Yes or no?

I’m guessing nothing was signed, so no “hire” was made. This mainly all supposedly started on a Belichick call/text, right? That’s not evidence of hire. I’ve interviewed people and said “you look like our hire” and changed my mind.

Maybe the Giants new 99% sure who they wanted and there were 9 other teams looking for coaches as well and wanted to see him too, so they felt they had to act. Doesn’t mean the rule was broken; ESPECIALLY not because of racial reasons.

AsylumGuido · 02-03-2022, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I’m guessing nothing was signed, so no “hire” was made. This mainly all supposedly started on a Belichick call/text, right? That’s not evidence of hire. I’ve interviewed people and said “you look like our hire” and changed my mind.

Maybe the Giants new 99% sure who they wanted and there were 9 other teams looking for coaches as well and wanted to see him too, so they felt they had to act. Doesn’t mean the rule was broken; ESPECIALLY not because of racial reasons.

Absolutely. As long as they didn't act before the interview they would be in the clear for sure. And none of that can be solved one way or another in a football forum. That's what the courts are for, right?

Oh, by the way, verbal agreements can be binding in New Jersey, as can text messages, emails, and other forms of electronic communication in most every state these days. Of course, when I had all of my business law courses back in the day we were limited to telephone and snail mail. LOL!

New Jersey Contract Law: Everything You Need to Know

This tiny part of the lawsuit is just the tip of the iceberg. It's going to be very interesting what all comes to light over the next few months as others begin to join the litigation.

saintsfan1976 · 02-03-2022, 09:27 AM

LOL. It just struck me that we're debating Millionaires fighting with Billionaires.

Geez man...

I need to go drop food off to parents with children who are hungry because our government killed their jobs and thinks $300 a month will cut it.

Peace out yall

AsylumGuido · 02-03-2022, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

LOL. It just struck me that we're debating Millionaires fighting with Billionaires.

Geez man...

I need to go drop food off to parents with children who are hungry because our government killed their jobs and thinks $300 a month will cut it.

Peace out yall

Definitely!

Budsdrinker · 02-03-2022, 11:45 AM

Here's my 2 cents. Hire the best candidate regardless of race. The only problem I have with Flores, is if this tanking proposal happened in 2019, why wait until after you're fired in 2022 to voice your concern.

02-03-2022, 08:55 AM	#1
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,972 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Boston Saint They are facing the reality that any rule/legislation/law made to promote equality by favoring one racial group over another is, by definition, unfair and unequal and will have consequences. Flores “case” is proof of that. Because of the rule put in to try to artificially enforce an increase in black head coaches, Flores felt he was used as prop. Without the Rooney rule he may or may not have gotten a call from the Giants for an interview but he at least would have known if the interest was legit or a sham. I also think the Giants should be able to hire whomever they want as HC (or anywhere else). Organizations that don’t want to take advantage of Black coaching talent would suffer the consequences. Long term successful organizations like the Steelers and Ravens whose coach/GM happen to be Black will take advantage and lead the way for others. But it is best to happen organically over time rather than by decree. Just like there are few Black Head coaches now, there were few Black QBs in the 70s and 80s when I grew up. Now, I don’t think there is any racial barrier for a Black QB and that happened naturally. The coaching situation will work itself out as well. That’s just my opinions on things. I know it’s a touchy subject and I do not mean to offend anyone. Myself I want Winston back at QB and I’d by fine with Leftwich as a Head Coach, so I don’t think I have a bias. I would NOT want Flores though because it seems like he’s looking for one. If I were someone in Flores situation I'd probably be pissed that I had to fly all over the country to meet with an organization that was never interested in me

02-03-2022, 09:02 AM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,489	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 If I were someone in Flores situation I'd probably be pissed that I had to fly all over the country to meet with an organization that was never interested in me I would be surprised if that didn't urge on the filing a bit.

02-03-2022, 09:02 AM	#3
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Search Here is another point I was mulling in my mind. I hear the line repeated that Because 70% of the league is made up of Black players that means that the head coaching ranks is under represented by Black coaches. Now, that implies there is A correlation between being a successful NFL head coach and the coache’s playing career. With that implication in mind, I will point out that the following Coaches: Bill Walsh Bill Parcells Bill Belichick Sean Payton Mike Tomlin Whom I consider in my list of top coaches ever have not played a single , regular season snap among them. Payton played strike games and Parcels was a pre season camp body for Detroit. I’m sure there are others I’m missing. But it Sort of makes one question the value/need of being a NFL player when it comes to being an NFL coach. Just a thought. In fact, the best I can come with as a connection is Ditka who won a SB as coach and was a ball of fame TE.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

02-03-2022, 09:19 AM	#4
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Search But that is not the fault of the organization but rather the rule they are made to follow. The gripe is against the rule that was put in place to “fix” the inequity that is believed Black candidates face. It’s a catch 22.

02-03-2022, 09:29 AM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,489	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Boston Saint But that is not the fault of the organization but rather the rule they are made to follow. The gripe is against the rule that was put in place to “fix” the inequity that is believed Black candidates face. It’s a catch 22. Yup. The rule definitely has its faults. That's for sure. But it is the fault of the organization if they ignore the rule altogether as has been a point of complaint for years, don't you think? If a rule states that an employer must interview two applicants prior to hiring either of them, and the employer hires the first interviewee prior to holding an interview with the other has the employer violated the rule? Yes or no?

02-03-2022, 09:37 AM	#6
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Yup. The rule definitely has its faults. That's for sure. But it is the fault of the organization if they ignore the rule altogether as has been a point of complaint for years, don't you think? If a rule states that an employer must interview two applicants prior to hiring either of them, and the employer hires the first interviewee prior to holding an interview with the other has the employer violated the rule? Yes or no? I’m guessing nothing was signed, so no “hire” was made. This mainly all supposedly started on a Belichick call/text, right? That’s not evidence of hire. I’ve interviewed people and said “you look like our hire” and changed my mind. Maybe the Giants new 99% sure who they wanted and there were 9 other teams looking for coaches as well and wanted to see him too, so they felt they had to act. Doesn’t mean the rule was broken; ESPECIALLY not because of racial reasons.

02-03-2022, 09:59 AM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,489	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by Boston Saint I’m guessing nothing was signed, so no “hire” was made. This mainly all supposedly started on a Belichick call/text, right? That’s not evidence of hire. I’ve interviewed people and said “you look like our hire” and changed my mind. Maybe the Giants new 99% sure who they wanted and there were 9 other teams looking for coaches as well and wanted to see him too, so they felt they had to act. Doesn’t mean the rule was broken; ESPECIALLY not because of racial reasons. Absolutely. As long as they didn't act before the interview they would be in the clear for sure. And none of that can be solved one way or another in a football forum. That's what the courts are for, right? Oh, by the way, verbal agreements can be binding in New Jersey, as can text messages, emails, and other forms of electronic communication in most every state these days. Of course, when I had all of my business law courses back in the day we were limited to telephone and snail mail. LOL! New Jersey Contract Law: Everything You Need to Know This tiny part of the lawsuit is just the tip of the iceberg. It's going to be very interesting what all comes to light over the next few months as others begin to join the litigation.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-03-2022, 09:27 AM	#8
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,972 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Head Coach Search LOL. It just struck me that we're debating Millionaires fighting with Billionaires. Geez man... I need to go drop food off to parents with children who are hungry because our government killed their jobs and thinks $300 a month will cut it. Peace out yall

02-03-2022, 09:31 AM	#9
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,489	Re: Head Coach Search Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 LOL. It just struck me that we're debating Millionaires fighting with Billionaires. Geez man... I need to go drop food off to parents with children who are hungry because our government killed their jobs and thinks $300 a month will cut it. Peace out yall Definitely!

02-03-2022, 11:45 AM	#10
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Head Coach Search Here's my 2 cents. Hire the best candidate regardless of race. The only problem I have with Flores, is if this tanking proposal happened in 2019, why wait until after you're fired in 2022 to voice your concern.

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