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Head Coach Search

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by rezburna I talked about this topic in 2016 and found a study that showed being an offensive or defensive coordinator usually translates to getting head coaching gigs for White coaches but not for Black coaches. Experience and ...

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Old 02-03-2022, 06:52 AM   #1
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Re: Head Coach Search

Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
I talked about this topic in 2016 and found a study that showed being an offensive or defensive coordinator usually translates to getting head coaching gigs for White coaches but not for Black coaches. Experience and prior role didn’t matter. There was a shortage of Black coordinators and head coaches at the time. I see a good bit of Black coordinators now, but the head coaches are scarce. And why wouldn’t being the head coach be the epitome of success if you’re a coach? That’s an odd question tbh. Why wouldn’t people aspire to be the head coach?
We shouldn't assume every coach aspires to become a head coach. Since 1990, the average NFL HC tenure is just 4 seasons (link below). The pressure, the responsibility, the media.... It's not like it's a sweet gig man.

Pete Carmichael is a great example.


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Old 02-03-2022, 08:13 AM   #2
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Re: Head Coach Search

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
We shouldn't assume every coach aspires to become a head coach. Since 1990, the average NFL HC tenure is just 4 seasons (link below). The pressure, the responsibility, the media.... It's not like it's a sweet gig man.

Pete Carmichael is a great example.


Link https://vikingsterritory.com/2020/ge...ans-for-zimmer
Carmichael, however, has interviewed for multiple head coaching openings in the past. The Raiders, Packers, and the Saints among them. You are correct that not every coach that aspires to be a head coach has the makeup to be a success.
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Old 02-03-2022, 08:54 AM   #3
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Re: Head Coach Search

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
Carmichael, however, has interviewed for multiple head coaching openings in the past. The Raiders, Packers, and the Saints among them. You are correct that not every coach that aspires to be a head coach has the makeup to be a success.
Then why are we distilling it down to race
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Old 02-03-2022, 09:01 AM   #4
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Re: Head Coach Search

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
Then why are we distilling it down to race
I'm wondering the same thing, saintsfan1976. This lawsuit affects ALL avenues of the hiring and firing processes in the NFL. Lily white Jane Doe can be benefited, as well.
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Old 02-03-2022, 09:08 AM   #5
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Re: Head Coach Search

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
I'm wondering the same thing, saintsfan1976. This lawsuit affects ALL avenues of the hiring and firing processes in the NFL. Lily white Jane Doe can be benefited, as well.
Statement from the lawyers:

“In certain critical ways, the NFL is racially segregated and is managed much like a plantation. Its 32 owners—none of whom are Black—profit substantially from the labor of NFL players, 70% of whom are Black. The owners watch the games from atop NFL stadiums in their luxury boxes, while their majority-Black workforce put their bodies on the line every Sunday, taking vicious hits and suffering debilitating injuries to their bodies and their brains while the NFL and its owners reap billions of dollars.”

Really out to help the lily whites....


I did read one good thing: Seeking retribution for the absolute failure of the NFL to protect retired players with healthcare and the sheer criminality of hiding scientific evidence regarding brain trauma.
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Old 02-03-2022, 09:15 AM   #6
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Re: Head Coach Search

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
Statement from the lawyers:

“In certain critical ways, the NFL is racially segregated and is managed much like a plantation. Its 32 owners—none of whom are Black—profit substantially from the labor of NFL players, 70% of whom are Black. The owners watch the games from atop NFL stadiums in their luxury boxes, while their majority-Black workforce put their bodies on the line every Sunday, taking vicious hits and suffering debilitating injuries to their bodies and their brains while the NFL and its owners reap billions of dollars.”

Really out to help the lily whites....


I did read one good thing: Seeking retribution for the absolute failure of the NFL to protect retired players with healthcare and the sheer criminality of hiding scientific evidence regarding brain trauma.
They are definitely stating their case for their individual complainant, that's for sure. However, the suit does open the door for others, as you point out.
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Old 02-03-2022, 10:50 AM   #7
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Re: Head Coach Search

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
Then why are we distilling it down to race
It’s distilling down to race because Black coaches are saying they want to be head coaches. Black executives are saying they want to be GM’s and Presidents. Black billionaires, the VERY short list of them that exist in this country, are saying they want ownership of teams. The NBA at least has multiple Black coaches and GM’s. I know Jordan owns the Hornets. Again, it’s being distilled down to race because Black people are saying, “Hey, help us out. We want these positions too. We can do more than just the manual labor on the field.” The response should be let’s figure out a way to help these brothers out, not looking for any way to shift the conversation off race and delegitimize the argument in its entirety. Now where I definitely agree is this: these owners can do what they want. If they want their coaching staff to be all White that’s cool. They should be able to do that, and the players have to grow balls and take a stand and say they won’t play for organizations that don’t prioritize putting the demographic that makes the NFL run in positions of power.

"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael
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Old 02-03-2022, 11:23 AM   #8
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Re: Head Coach Search

Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
It’s distilling down to race because Black coaches are saying they want to be head coaches. Black executives are saying they want to be GM’s and Presidents. Black billionaires, the VERY short list of them that exist in this country, are saying they want ownership of teams. The NBA at least has multiple Black coaches and GM’s. I know Jordan owns the Hornets. Again, it’s being distilled down to race because Black people are saying, “Hey, help us out. We want these positions too. We can do more than just the manual labor on the field.” The response should be let’s figure out a way to help these brothers out, not looking for any way to shift the conversation off race and delegitimize the argument in its entirety. Now where I definitely agree is this: these owners can do what they want. If they want their coaching staff to be all White that’s cool. They should be able to do that, and the players have to grow balls and take a stand and say they won’t play for organizations that don’t prioritize putting the demographic that makes the NFL run in positions of power.
That’s true rez but there are a lot of White, Asian, Hispanics, etc that want to be head coaches and GMs and Owners too. Plenty of Black guys became HCs like Dungy, Green, Smith Edwards etc. There is a pathway. Should Gail Benson be forced to sell the Saints to a Black owner? Why not an Asian owner? Jerry Jones, who greatly contributed to the Cowboy’s wealth and the overall league success can’t leave the team to his children? Want is not enough reason to be given something.
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Old 02-03-2022, 01:14 PM   #9
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Re: Head Coach Search

Originally Posted by Boston Saint View Post
That’s true rez but there are a lot of White, Asian, Hispanics, etc that want to be head coaches and GMs and Owners too. Plenty of Black guys became HCs like Dungy, Green, Smith Edwards etc. There is a pathway. Should Gail Benson be forced to sell the Saints to a Black owner? Why not an Asian owner? Jerry Jones, who greatly contributed to the Cowboy’s wealth and the overall league success can’t leave the team to his children? Want is not enough reason to be given something.
It’s not the Black community’s responsibility to always have to lead the charge for everybody else. If Asian people want more representation in the league then they need to be just as vocal about it as we are. The same goes for Hispanic coaches. White coaches are already well represented and always have been at every level of the organizational structure. The fact of the matter is our freedom struggles always open the door for everyone else. The Civil Rights Movement benefitted all minorities because the legislation made sure to include them. I’m sure anything moving forward will benefit Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, and women despite the fact that’s it’s Black men catching all the heat.

"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael
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Old 02-05-2022, 11:46 AM   #10
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Re: Head Coach Search

Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
It’s distilling down to race because Black coaches are saying they want to be head coaches. Black executives are saying they want to be GM’s and Presidents. Black billionaires, the VERY short list of them that exist in this country, are saying they want ownership of teams. The NBA at least has multiple Black coaches and GM’s. I know Jordan owns the Hornets. Again, it’s being distilled down to race because Black people are saying, “Hey, help us out. We want these positions too. We can do more than just the manual labor on the field.” The response should be let’s figure out a way to help these brothers out, not looking for any way to shift the conversation off race and delegitimize the argument in its entirety. Now where I definitely agree is this: these owners can do what they want. If they want their coaching staff to be all White that’s cool. They should be able to do that, and the players have to grow balls and take a stand and say they won’t play for organizations that don’t prioritize putting the demographic that makes the NFL run in positions of power.
False equivalency Rez.

A Billionaire gaining ownership, I don't care what color they are, isn't "helping us out"...

I don't see how you can trivialize the multi-million dollar contracts and endorsements that follow as simply labor on the field.

The response in recent years has in fact done more to elevate people of color into the positions they're qualified for than ever before. The path is there. The makeup is changing. But I get the feeling it's not enough or not happening quickly enough. So what IS the desired outcome?

It's not delegitimizing the argument it's trying to remove the surface level argument of race permeating every facet of our views.
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