Saints Retaining Carmichael and Rest of Staff

FinSaint · 01-20-2023, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Actually, I hoping to more of the offense that we had back in 2012 when Carmichael's playcalling led to the Saints finishing #3 in scoring and #2 in total yards. Hopefully Allen lets him open it up like he's always done in the past when he was call plays.

Brees retired.

AsylumGuido · 01-20-2023, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

Brees retired.

Yes, he did. That just shows how important the players are to success of the team. I was all for replacing Carmichael, but it didn't happen, so I'm looking for the positives. One is that we have had great success with Carmichael calling plays in the past so all is not lost. We need a healthy line and a QB that can make plays. And, yes, we need Carmichael to open up the offense more just like he used to do when calling plays prior to this last season.

AsylumGuido · 01-20-2023, 10:34 AM

This is true. Even if we had got a new OC like we all had wanted we would have still had to accomplish most or all of these things to improve the offense.

FinSaint · 01-20-2023, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Yes, he did. That just shows how important the players are to success of the team. I was all for replacing Carmichael, but it didn't happen, so I'm looking for the positives. One is that we have had great success with Carmichael calling plays in the past so all is not lost. We need a healthy line and a QB that can make plays. And, yes, we need Carmichael to open up the offense more just like he used to do when calling plays prior to this last season.

Sure, I get that, but I don't think the offensive success of the Paytonless season a decade ago is really relevant to today.

AsylumGuido · 01-20-2023, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

Sure, I get that, but I don't think the offensive success of the Paytonless season a decade ago is really relevant to today.

He has actually taken over playcalling a few other times, Fin. He was the playcaller when Payton broke his leg in 2011 against the Colts. We won that game 62-7, the most points ever scored by the Saints. He also handled playcalling in the first several games of 2016 when we scored 32 or more in four of five games. I just don't understand how or why he suddenly became so conservative this past season unless the plan was to not make mistakes and rely upon the defense. If so I'm sure they have garnered the fact that this didn't work very well. If Carmichael does truly retain the playcalling duties I fully expect a more aggressive approach.

Edit: Here's more on Carmichael's playcalling. He actually called the rest of the 2011 season after Payton's injury.

2011

The Saints averaged 452 yards per game in their first five games before Payton got injured and had to cede play calling to Carmichael and 474 yards for the final 11 regular-season games after that. The Saints set numerous offensive records that season behind Carmichael and Payton, including most yards gained in a season.

AsylumGuido · 01-20-2023, 02:13 PM

I have been thinking again about something that came to mind a few days ago. What if Payton is planning on taking Carmichael, and perhaps a few others, with him if he does indeed get a new gig? It would make sense that Loomis would cooperate with him by holding onto them instead of firing them straight out. There's no reason to blemish their resumes with a dismissal. Perhaps they wanted to move on from Roushar and Payton wasn't interested in him. Then it would be best for him to get released and get a start looking for work elsewhere.

FinSaint · 01-20-2023, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I have been thinking again about something that came to mind a few days ago. What if Payton is planning on taking Carmichael, and perhaps a few others, with him if he does indeed get a new gig? It would make sense that Loomis would cooperate with him by holding onto them instead of firing them straight out. There's no reason to blemish their resumes with a dismissal. Perhaps they wanted to move on from Roushar and Payton wasn't interested in him. Then it would be best for him to get released and get a start looking for work elsewhere.

In that case I would say Loomis is not acting with the Saints' best intentions in mind, since playing it like that would cause them to lose out on promising candidates to replace those leaving.

AsylumGuido · 01-20-2023, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

In that case I would say Loomis is not acting with the Saints' best intentions in mind, since playing it like that would cause them to lose out on promising candidates to replace those leaving.

Unless they already have someone in mind that they know will be there. Who knows.

halloween 65 · 01-20-2023, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I have been thinking again about something that came to mind a few days ago. What if Payton is planning on taking Carmichael, and perhaps a few others, with him if he does indeed get a new gig? It would make sense that Loomis would cooperate with him by holding onto them instead of firing them straight out. There's no reason to blemish their resumes with a dismissal. Perhaps they wanted to move on from Roushar and Payton wasn't interested in him. Then it would be best for him to get released and get a start looking for work elsewhere.

It is a reason to blemish their resume. They didn't get the job done. Most ppl. I know get fired. If what you stated is true, more higher ups should get the pink also. Unreal.

AsylumGuido · 01-20-2023, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

It is a reason to blemish their resume. They didn't get the job done. Most ppl. I know get fired. If what you stated is true, more higher ups should get the pink also. Unreal.

Players didn't get the job done either. Those 4th and 5th string QB's and backup offensive linemen killed more drives than any play called. That's for certain.

One other thing is I keep hearing coaches getting compared to people in other jobs. It's not like that at all. The coaching pool is relatively small, unlike other potential workers in other businesses. Like it or not they do look out for each. Always have and always will. You fire a guy today and you might be looking for a position with that guy two years from now. It is absolutely the way it is, like it or not.

01-20-2023, 10:17 AM	#1
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: Saints Retaining Carmichael and Rest of Staff Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Actually, I hoping to more of the offense that we had back in 2012 when Carmichael's playcalling led to the Saints finishing #3 in scoring and #2 in total yards. Hopefully Allen lets him open it up like he's always done in the past when he was call plays. Brees retired.

01-20-2023, 12:02 PM	#4
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: Saints Retaining Carmichael and Rest of Staff Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Yes, he did. That just shows how important the players are to success of the team. I was all for replacing Carmichael, but it didn't happen, so I'm looking for the positives. One is that we have had great success with Carmichael calling plays in the past so all is not lost. We need a healthy line and a QB that can make plays. And, yes, we need Carmichael to open up the offense more just like he used to do when calling plays prior to this last season. Sure, I get that, but I don't think the offensive success of the Paytonless season a decade ago is really relevant to today.

01-20-2023, 02:02 PM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Retaining Carmichael and Rest of Staff Originally Posted by FinSaint Sure, I get that, but I don't think the offensive success of the Paytonless season a decade ago is really relevant to today. He has actually taken over playcalling a few other times, Fin. He was the playcaller when Payton broke his leg in 2011 against the Colts. We won that game 62-7, the most points ever scored by the Saints. He also handled playcalling in the first several games of 2016 when we scored 32 or more in four of five games. I just don't understand how or why he suddenly became so conservative this past season unless the plan was to not make mistakes and rely upon the defense. If so I'm sure they have garnered the fact that this didn't work very well. If Carmichael does truly retain the playcalling duties I fully expect a more aggressive approach. Edit: Here's more on Carmichael's playcalling. He actually called the rest of the 2011 season after Payton's injury. 2011 The Saints averaged 452 yards per game in their first five games before Payton got injured and had to cede play calling to Carmichael and 474 yards for the final 11 regular-season games after that. The Saints set numerous offensive records that season behind Carmichael and Payton, including most yards gained in a season.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-20-2023, 02:13 PM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Retaining Carmichael and Rest of Staff I have been thinking again about something that came to mind a few days ago. What if Payton is planning on taking Carmichael, and perhaps a few others, with him if he does indeed get a new gig? It would make sense that Loomis would cooperate with him by holding onto them instead of firing them straight out. There's no reason to blemish their resumes with a dismissal. Perhaps they wanted to move on from Roushar and Payton wasn't interested in him. Then it would be best for him to get released and get a start looking for work elsewhere.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-20-2023, 02:53 PM	#7
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: Saints Retaining Carmichael and Rest of Staff Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I have been thinking again about something that came to mind a few days ago. What if Payton is planning on taking Carmichael, and perhaps a few others, with him if he does indeed get a new gig? It would make sense that Loomis would cooperate with him by holding onto them instead of firing them straight out. There's no reason to blemish their resumes with a dismissal. Perhaps they wanted to move on from Roushar and Payton wasn't interested in him. Then it would be best for him to get released and get a start looking for work elsewhere. In that case I would say Loomis is not acting with the Saints' best intentions in mind, since playing it like that would cause them to lose out on promising candidates to replace those leaving. Sinner and halloween 65 like this.

01-20-2023, 10:23 AM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Retaining Carmichael and Rest of Staff Originally Posted by FinSaint Brees retired. Yes, he did. That just shows how important the players are to success of the team. I was all for replacing Carmichael, but it didn't happen, so I'm looking for the positives. One is that we have had great success with Carmichael calling plays in the past so all is not lost. We need a healthy line and a QB that can make plays. And, yes, we need Carmichael to open up the offense more just like he used to do when calling plays prior to this last season.

01-20-2023, 10:34 AM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Retaining Carmichael and Rest of Staff This is true. Even if we had got a new OC like we all had wanted we would have still had to accomplish most or all of these things to improve the offense. Twitter

01-20-2023, 03:13 PM	#8
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Retaining Carmichael and Rest of Staff Originally Posted by FinSaint In that case I would say Loomis is not acting with the Saints' best intentions in mind, since playing it like that would cause them to lose out on promising candidates to replace those leaving. Unless they already have someone in mind that they know will be there. Who knows.

01-20-2023, 04:05 PM	#9
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Saints Retaining Carmichael and Rest of Staff Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I have been thinking again about something that came to mind a few days ago. What if Payton is planning on taking Carmichael, and perhaps a few others, with him if he does indeed get a new gig? It would make sense that Loomis would cooperate with him by holding onto them instead of firing them straight out. There's no reason to blemish their resumes with a dismissal. Perhaps they wanted to move on from Roushar and Payton wasn't interested in him. Then it would be best for him to get released and get a start looking for work elsewhere. It is a reason to blemish their resume. They didn't get the job done. Most ppl. I know get fired. If what you stated is true, more higher ups should get the pink also. Unreal. Sinner and K Major like this.

01-20-2023, 04:16 PM	#10
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Retaining Carmichael and Rest of Staff Originally Posted by halloween 65 It is a reason to blemish their resume. They didn't get the job done. Most ppl. I know get fired. If what you stated is true, more higher ups should get the pink also. Unreal. Players didn't get the job done either. Those 4th and 5th string QB's and backup offensive linemen killed more drives than any play called. That's for certain. One other thing is I keep hearing coaches getting compared to people in other jobs. It's not like that at all. The coaching pool is relatively small, unlike other potential workers in other businesses. Like it or not they do look out for each. Always have and always will. You fire a guy today and you might be looking for a position with that guy two years from now. It is absolutely the way it is, like it or not.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill