Jeremy Shockey

Euphoria · 05-04-2008, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

the giants are a different team....they use shockey but not the best way....we would use him the best way....they dont need him to win a SB because they have a great D and a good enough offense.....we have a great offense that would be near perfection if we got him and a poor D....getting shockey doesnt upgrade our D....but it will definitly help our scoring....we wont need as great of a defense because we will put even more points up on the board

Oh stop that crap right there buddy...

I think we learned our lessong about offenes, offense, offense. Doesn't freakin' matter if we score 35 a game if we let them score 40 a game... we still lose.

PAY ATTENTION TO THE PAST SB winners... it wasn't the best offense in NFL history that one it last year was it - NO. It was a get to the QB D, who worked over the Pats. They year before that, pass rush of the Colts.

Everyone is losing their minds now of the Shockey.

pakowitz · 05-04-2008, 10:55 PM

everyone is acting like we havent improved our defense which is far from the truth.. we have improved every single level of defense from the line to LBs to secondary.. adding several quality players at each level and 1 Probowl MLB which will easily improve our defense... and not to mention that we have plenty of depth now at every position except for safety..

Euphoria · 05-04-2008, 11:00 PM

I can't argue Shockey will be a benefit on any NFL team on the field. In the locker room, question marks. The asking price is to much for a head case. THATS WHY EVEN SEAN hasn't given in to their demands. Give up a 2nd - NO, a first -NO. A fourth and that is it. Its time to move on unless the Giants want to be real about it.

Euphoria · 05-04-2008, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by pakowitz

everyone is acting like we havent improved our defense which is far from the truth.. we have improved every single level of defense from the line to LBs to secondary.. adding several quality players at each level and 1 Probowl MLB which will easily improve our defense... and not to mention that we have plenty of depth now at every position except for safety..

...and it was done by FA, and using draft picks in the draft! Instead of spending the picks on Shockey.

iceshack149 · 05-05-2008, 02:36 AM

the giants need a TE that blocks better than he catches....they are a run first team....shockey can block but is not a great blocker

And the Saints are a pass first team that needs to strengthen it's run game. A blocking TE gets no love but they are just as important as a receiving TE and I think that the Saints have both in Johnson and Campbell, if Campbell can return from his injury. And Billy Miller seems to do well in a back up role.

ok so they had 74 catches.. but does anyone really think that they are a threat?

74 receptions doesn't necessarily deem them as threats but as players that command attention.

Oh well. I say we all dig our heels in, as we've been doing, and see who can get the other guy to understand where he's coming from and get him to change his mind. I'm skeptical but it may happen.

Get comfortable with Shockey being a a thread topic. This debate will most assuredly continue though out the season with or without Jeremy Shockey as the Saints Tight End.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 05-05-2008, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by pakowitz

ok so they had 74 catches.. but does anyone really think that they are a threat? do you think the DC of our opponents gameplan to stop johnson and miller? does anyone here think they have done anything of real significance on the offensive side of the ball?

i dont..

Every offensive skill player on the field does not have to be a game changing threat.

The very fact that opposing DCs did not account for the tight end is the reason that Miller and Johnson collectively accounted for more catches (74), yards (706), TDs (4), and a decent YPC (9.5) than Shockey (57,609,3,10.5) last year.

With that type of production I'd ignore Shockey too.

But as I keep saying over and over and over again it's not just about talent. It's about fit. Johnson and Miller were both happy enough with the situation with the Saints that they were willing to sign up for another tour. Both were free agents. Both could have gone anywhere. I know they will work hard, make themselves available to Brees, and fit into this offense.

Shockey will not be happy. I don't think it's in his makeup. He has a diva superstar attitude. He wants to be the center of attention. He's a loudmouth that has thrown his own coach under the bus. He's unhappy after a season where his team has won the ultimate prize. That's a guy that just waiting up upset the apple cart It has been said that he has a fiery attitude. The problem is that a fiery attitude sometimes blows up in your face. Kyle Turley wasn't so long ago for most of you to remember his famous meltdowns.

I don't want that to be the Saints apple cart. Think about it. Reggie Bush is the superstar of this team. I think we all know that he really doesn't deserve it at this point. It doesn't bother guys like Brees, Colston, and Deuce who really deserve superstar accolades for this team. You think Shockey will be happy when the reporters flock over to Bush's locker to ask him about whatever? Or how about the first time Payton feels the need to get into Shockey's face. You think he'll respond well?

The Saints need talented guys that can be trusted to do what's best for the team.

I don't trust Shockey. This is a guy that right now that has thrown his own organization under the bus with this debacle.

Why would I want him in our organization?

SFIAH

saintsfan1976 · 05-05-2008, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Every offensive skill player on the field does not have to be a game changing threat.

The very fact that opposing DCs did not account for the tight end is the reason that Miller and Johnson collectively accounted for more catches (74), yards (706), TDs (4), and a decent YPC (9.5) than Shockey (57,609,3,10.5) last year.

With that type of production I'd ignore Shockey too.

But as I keep saying over and over and over again it's not just about talent. It's about fit. Johnson and Miller were both happy enough with the situation with the Saints that they were willing to sign up for another tour. Both were free agents. Both could have gone anywhere. I know they will work hard, make themselves available to Brees, and fit into this offense.

Shockey will not be happy. I don't think it's in his makeup. He has a diva superstar attitude. He wants to be the center of attention. He's a loudmouth that has thrown his own coach under the bus. He's unhappy after a season where his team has won the ultimate prize. That's a guy that just waiting up upset the apple cart It has been said that he has a fiery attitude. The problem is that a fiery attitude sometimes blows up in your face. Kyle Turley wasn't so long ago for most of you to remember his famous meltdowns.

I don't want that to be the Saints apple cart. Think about it. Reggie Bush is the superstar of this team. I think we all know that he really doesn't deserve it at this point. It doesn't bother guys like Brees, Colston, and Deuce who really deserve superstar accolades for this team. You think Shockey will be happy when the reporters flock over to Bush's locker to ask him about whatever? Or how about the first time Payton feels the need to get into Shockey's face. You think he'll respond well?

The Saints need talented guys that can be trusted to do what's best for the team.

I don't trust Shockey. This is a guy that right now that has thrown his own organization under the bus with this debacle.

Why would I want him in our organization?

SFIAH

Just a few things here...

1. Would you really "ignore" Shockey on D? I welcome him then.
2. It is about "fit". And didn't you read the title of this post??? You think our head coach knows a little more (than us) about just how well Shockey will fit in New Orleans??
3. You're making huge assumptions about Shockey's attitude/makeup and how he will act when reporters "flock to Bush's locker"... Were you actually IN the locker room last season? Or do you just believe everything you read?
4. I haven't heard Shockey throw anyone under the bus, all i've heard is that he wants to play for another team that he can be a bigger part of.

RickyInKenner · 05-05-2008, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

I guess that's the reason that Johnson and Miller had 74 catches between them last year. Because no one paid any attention to them.

SFIAH

its impossible for you to win this argument.

BIGEASY504 · 05-05-2008, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

shockey will be happy because we will use him the way his talent suggests....he will be used immediately to open up our passing....the giants cant use his talent because they dont know how....while every team has some sort of short passing offense....its the saints that use it as their primary offense....shockey would thrive on this offense as he always has....shockey may want money...but hes a football player and he wants to be involved....he is looked at as a cancer but if we use him the way he needs to be...then he'll just sit back and enjoy the ride to our first SB

This is true, he's better than any TE we currently have on the team. And just like any other player he wants to be involved. The Giants offense is different from the Saints offense, hell I don't think Antonio Gates would like the Giants offense. I still think the Giants would have went to the Super Bowl with Shockey anyway because TE's in there offense has little production - Shockey can produce.

Memnoch_TP · 05-06-2008, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

It holds gallons of water. What proof do you need that we don't need him to win a SB? He didn't win it for NY. NY went on to win it without his crappy self-serving attitude. He wasn't even on the sidelines during the games.

Don't try and compare apples to oranges (SB or playoffs) but use the same situation if we win the SB without Bush you can easily say the same thing, whats wrong with that... it would be fact.

How can you even say that, like his team winning the SB has ANYTHING to do with the Saints need him to win the SB.

You see, we could have been the #1 Offense last year, but just because we are the BEST does not mean that we can't get BETTER. Ford used to have that attitude, now they are trying to build cars the way Toyota does, so they can catch up in sales. When you hit #1 and stop trying to get even better, you get passed up.

I (obviously) can't say this enough, Shockey makes us BETTER. Not because Shockey is the greatest TE ever, but because he changes how defenses play against us, and he changes how opposing coaches plan for us. Shockey helps us the MOST by allowing us to choose the ground in the battle. He forces the opposing coaches make the plan that they HAVE to, not the plan that they WANT to.

Not too many people seem to realize the significance of this. Shockey starts helping us win before the game is even played.

As far as being a "Team Cancer", everyone gripes about their jobs. Seriously, as if you have never griped about your idiot employers. I don't CARE how much he makes, if I was surrounded by idiots I would say it out loud. He is not a thug or a criminal, he has no known substance abuse problems, he will only be a problem to a dysfunctional team.

Shockey makes us better. Better is good. There is no getting around this point. You don't have to like it, but you need to accept it.

05-04-2008, 10:52 PM	#41
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: payton wants shockey................... Originally Posted by CantonLegend the giants are a different team....they use shockey but not the best way....we would use him the best way....they dont need him to win a SB because they have a great D and a good enough offense.....we have a great offense that would be near perfection if we got him and a poor D....getting shockey doesnt upgrade our D....but it will definitly help our scoring....we wont need as great of a defense because we will put even more points up on the board Oh stop that crap right there buddy... I think we learned our lessong about offenes, offense, offense. Doesn't freakin' matter if we score 35 a game if we let them score 40 a game... we still lose. PAY ATTENTION TO THE PAST SB winners... it wasn't the best offense in NFL history that one it last year was it - NO. It was a get to the QB D, who worked over the Pats. They year before that, pass rush of the Colts. Everyone is losing their minds now of the Shockey.

05-04-2008, 10:55 PM	#42
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Re: payton wants shockey................... everyone is acting like we havent improved our defense which is far from the truth.. we have improved every single level of defense from the line to LBs to secondary.. adding several quality players at each level and 1 Probowl MLB which will easily improve our defense... and not to mention that we have plenty of depth now at every position except for safety..

05-04-2008, 11:00 PM	#43
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: payton wants shockey................... I can't argue Shockey will be a benefit on any NFL team on the field. In the locker room, question marks. The asking price is to much for a head case. THATS WHY EVEN SEAN hasn't given in to their demands. Give up a 2nd - NO, a first -NO. A fourth and that is it. Its time to move on unless the Giants want to be real about it.

05-04-2008, 11:12 PM	#44
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: payton wants shockey................... Originally Posted by pakowitz everyone is acting like we havent improved our defense which is far from the truth.. we have improved every single level of defense from the line to LBs to secondary.. adding several quality players at each level and 1 Probowl MLB which will easily improve our defense... and not to mention that we have plenty of depth now at every position except for safety.. ...and it was done by FA, and using draft picks in the draft! Instead of spending the picks on Shockey.

05-05-2008, 02:36 AM	#45
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,087 Blog Entries: 1	Re: payton wants shockey................... the giants need a TE that blocks better than he catches....they are a run first team....shockey can block but is not a great blocker And the Saints are a pass first team that needs to strengthen it's run game. A blocking TE gets no love but they are just as important as a receiving TE and I think that the Saints have both in Johnson and Campbell, if Campbell can return from his injury. And Billy Miller seems to do well in a back up role. ok so they had 74 catches.. but does anyone really think that they are a threat? 74 receptions doesn't necessarily deem them as threats but as players that command attention. Oh well. I say we all dig our heels in, as we've been doing, and see who can get the other guy to understand where he's coming from and get him to change his mind. I'm skeptical but it may happen. Get comfortable with Shockey being a a thread topic. This debate will most assuredly continue though out the season with or without Jeremy Shockey as the Saints Tight End.
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05-05-2008, 06:51 AM	#46
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: payton wants shockey................... Originally Posted by pakowitz ok so they had 74 catches.. but does anyone really think that they are a threat? do you think the DC of our opponents gameplan to stop johnson and miller? does anyone here think they have done anything of real significance on the offensive side of the ball? i dont.. Every offensive skill player on the field does not have to be a game changing threat. The very fact that opposing DCs did not account for the tight end is the reason that Miller and Johnson collectively accounted for more catches (74), yards (706), TDs (4), and a decent YPC (9.5) than Shockey (57,609,3,10.5) last year. With that type of production I'd ignore Shockey too. But as I keep saying over and over and over again it's not just about talent. It's about fit. Johnson and Miller were both happy enough with the situation with the Saints that they were willing to sign up for another tour. Both were free agents. Both could have gone anywhere. I know they will work hard, make themselves available to Brees, and fit into this offense. Shockey will not be happy. I don't think it's in his makeup. He has a diva superstar attitude. He wants to be the center of attention. He's a loudmouth that has thrown his own coach under the bus. He's unhappy after a season where his team has won the ultimate prize. That's a guy that just waiting up upset the apple cart It has been said that he has a fiery attitude. The problem is that a fiery attitude sometimes blows up in your face. Kyle Turley wasn't so long ago for most of you to remember his famous meltdowns. I don't want that to be the Saints apple cart. Think about it. Reggie Bush is the superstar of this team. I think we all know that he really doesn't deserve it at this point. It doesn't bother guys like Brees, Colston, and Deuce who really deserve superstar accolades for this team. You think Shockey will be happy when the reporters flock over to Bush's locker to ask him about whatever? Or how about the first time Payton feels the need to get into Shockey's face. You think he'll respond well? The Saints need talented guys that can be trusted to do what's best for the team. I don't trust Shockey. This is a guy that right now that has thrown his own organization under the bus with this debacle. Why would I want him in our organization? SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good. Last edited by SaintFanInATLHELL; 05-05-2008 at 06:56 AM..

05-05-2008, 07:29 AM	#47
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,534 Blog Entries: 3	Re: payton wants shockey................... Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Every offensive skill player on the field does not have to be a game changing threat. The very fact that opposing DCs did not account for the tight end is the reason that Miller and Johnson collectively accounted for more catches (74), yards (706), TDs (4), and a decent YPC (9.5) than Shockey (57,609,3,10.5) last year. With that type of production I'd ignore Shockey too. But as I keep saying over and over and over again it's not just about talent. It's about fit. Johnson and Miller were both happy enough with the situation with the Saints that they were willing to sign up for another tour. Both were free agents. Both could have gone anywhere. I know they will work hard, make themselves available to Brees, and fit into this offense. Shockey will not be happy. I don't think it's in his makeup. He has a diva superstar attitude. He wants to be the center of attention. He's a loudmouth that has thrown his own coach under the bus. He's unhappy after a season where his team has won the ultimate prize. That's a guy that just waiting up upset the apple cart It has been said that he has a fiery attitude. The problem is that a fiery attitude sometimes blows up in your face. Kyle Turley wasn't so long ago for most of you to remember his famous meltdowns. I don't want that to be the Saints apple cart. Think about it. Reggie Bush is the superstar of this team. I think we all know that he really doesn't deserve it at this point. It doesn't bother guys like Brees, Colston, and Deuce who really deserve superstar accolades for this team. You think Shockey will be happy when the reporters flock over to Bush's locker to ask him about whatever? Or how about the first time Payton feels the need to get into Shockey's face. You think he'll respond well? The Saints need talented guys that can be trusted to do what's best for the team. I don't trust Shockey. This is a guy that right now that has thrown his own organization under the bus with this debacle. Why would I want him in our organization? SFIAH Just a few things here... 1. Would you really "ignore" Shockey on D? I welcome him then. 2. It is about "fit". And didn't you read the title of this post??? You think our head coach knows a little more (than us) about just how well Shockey will fit in New Orleans?? 3. You're making huge assumptions about Shockey's attitude/makeup and how he will act when reporters "flock to Bush's locker"... Were you actually IN the locker room last season? Or do you just believe everything you read? 4. I haven't heard Shockey throw anyone under the bus, all i've heard is that he wants to play for another team that he can be a bigger part of.

05-05-2008, 07:38 AM	#48
RickyInKenner Registered Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 60	Re: payton wants shockey................... Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL I guess that's the reason that Johnson and Miller had 74 catches between them last year. Because no one paid any attention to them. SFIAH its impossible for you to win this argument.
RickyInKenner Registered Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 60

05-05-2008, 08:01 AM	#49
BIGEASY504 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 487	Re: payton wants shockey................... Originally Posted by CantonLegend shockey will be happy because we will use him the way his talent suggests....he will be used immediately to open up our passing....the giants cant use his talent because they dont know how....while every team has some sort of short passing offense....its the saints that use it as their primary offense....shockey would thrive on this offense as he always has....shockey may want money...but hes a football player and he wants to be involved....he is looked at as a cancer but if we use him the way he needs to be...then he'll just sit back and enjoy the ride to our first SB This is true, he's better than any TE we currently have on the team. And just like any other player he wants to be involved. The Giants offense is different from the Saints offense, hell I don't think Antonio Gates would like the Giants offense. I still think the Giants would have went to the Super Bowl with Shockey anyway because TE's in there offense has little production - Shockey can produce.
BIGEASY504 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 487

05-06-2008, 12:15 AM	#50
Memnoch_TP Logic Troll Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern Louisiana Posts: 565	Re: payton wants shockey................... Originally Posted by Euphoria It holds gallons of water. What proof do you need that we don't need him to win a SB? He didn't win it for NY. NY went on to win it without his crappy self-serving attitude. He wasn't even on the sidelines during the games. Don't try and compare apples to oranges (SB or playoffs) but use the same situation if we win the SB without Bush you can easily say the same thing, whats wrong with that... it would be fact. How can you even say that, like his team winning the SB has ANYTHING to do with the Saints need him to win the SB. You see, we could have been the #1 Offense last year, but just because we are the BEST does not mean that we can't get BETTER. Ford used to have that attitude, now they are trying to build cars the way Toyota does, so they can catch up in sales. When you hit #1 and stop trying to get even better, you get passed up. I (obviously) can't say this enough, Shockey makes us BETTER. Not because Shockey is the greatest TE ever, but because he changes how defenses play against us, and he changes how opposing coaches plan for us. Shockey helps us the MOST by allowing us to choose the ground in the battle. He forces the opposing coaches make the plan that they HAVE to, not the plan that they WANT to. Not too many people seem to realize the significance of this. Shockey starts helping us win before the game is even played. As far as being a "Team Cancer", everyone gripes about their jobs. Seriously, as if you have never griped about your idiot employers. I don't CARE how much he makes, if I was surrounded by idiots I would say it out loud. He is not a thug or a criminal, he has no known substance abuse problems, he will only be a problem to a dysfunctional team. Shockey makes us better. Better is good. There is no getting around this point. You don't have to like it, but you need to accept it.
	"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -- Douglas Adams.