Jeremy Shockey

ssmitty · 05-06-2008, 07:36 PM

please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't believe the giants would ever have made the playoffs without the play of shockey in some games. shockey had a part in not one, but a few games that the giants won in order to even get them to the wild card playoffs......
so, how important was he? or, how unimportant was he?
how about some stats.........

Michael Eisen - Story - 1.1 Giants Stats Review - Giants.com
Game On: Jeremy Shockey
Giants Bits | New York Giants Blog » 2007 » September
Michael Eisen - Story - 12.18 Tuesday Stats Review - Giants.com

and giants forum talking about him....
New York Giants Message Boards - Dealing with a possible reality that Shockey is a Saint

now, one can argue shockey did not do it alone, and i'd agree 100%, but
i do believe without his play in the regular season the giants would never have got to the wild card spot, and the patriots would be 19-0..
so, put that in your pipe and smoke it.............smitty

Tobias-Reiper · 05-06-2008, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

seriously? I mean seriously??? you think that seriously???

Seriously. I mean seriously. I think that seriously.
Why you ask?

jeanpierre · 05-07-2008, 01:07 AM

Re: Throwing his Coach under the bus...

Coughlin was getting thrown under the bus, but even he admitted he had to change to accomplish what he did...

Coaches like Coughlin and Mora have limited their success because they wanted some to "fit" a system...

Walsh and Belichick have multiple Superbowls because they take their system and modify it around their players; latest example, Moss, Malcontent Extreme, has probably the best season a WR ever has and his attitude suddenly changes...and why?!? They got him the ball and he knew he'd deliver...

Shockey knows he's a diff-maker at his position and he just wants to show it...

I'd like to know who'd be three options ahead of Shockey on offense...

Eric Johnson isn't exactly a blocking threat, so when he's in, well they know; and Billy Miller could be upgraded, but he's not blowing people up on the line...

Shockey is the most complete TE in the league and Payton will be able to maximize his talents because he's not caught up in putting him into his specific cookie mould...

SaintFanInATLHELL · 05-07-2008, 02:52 PM

I'll summarize the last two pages of responses.

Offense winning the SB: If the defense didn't hold NE to 14 points, there would have been no comeback.

Randy Moss getting the ball: Brees is going to distribute the ball. He's done it his whole career.

Shockey a needed cog in the Giants offense: then why are they shopping him in a trade.

Not a problem in the locker room: That's the Saints locker room right now. Want an example. A quote from Deuce discussing bringing in Soft Alexander:

Alexander to visit Saints after Bengals- NOLA.com

"I anticipate they'll continue to look at veteran running backs," McAllister said. "They have to have some protection just in case there are any setbacks with my rehab, even though there haven't been any. It never hurts to have a Plan B."

Now that's a class act. I actually looked for something from Shockey about Boss. The only thing I found was the other way around.

Boss planning on Shockeyâ€™s return - Utica, NY 13501 - The Observer-Dispatch

Ya'll can be dismissive of team chemistry if you like. But you won't like the results when you bring trouble into the locker room.

BTW problems at work? Got em. 3 people have quit over them. Personally I don't find it very productive.

SFIAH

papz · 05-07-2008, 03:39 PM

People do change... as Moss did in New England. So why can't Shockey should he become a Saint? For not being a class act in New York, I'm sure he's enjoying his Superbowl ring.

Euphoria · 05-07-2008, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by papz

People do change... as Moss did in New England. So why can't Shockey should he become a Saint? For not being a class act in New York, I'm sure he's enjoying his Superbowl ring.

Some people change and some don't.

The main thing that changed Moss was his production and being happy. Moss still showed up to practice.

jeanpierre · 05-07-2008, 06:53 PM

Moss, as a Raider, quit...he flat freakin quit...

Shockey didn't like losing and not getting a chance to contribute without maximizing his talents; he complained, he fussed, but he did not quit...

If the Saints have a culture conducive to winning, as Coach Payton said was his priority when he arrived (changing the culture), then why would you think he'd come in and be a problem...

The Saints definitely need to improve the defense, but if they can put the offense in the top three with Shockey, even with a suspect running game, why not make the move?!?

The 49ers didn't have a dominating defense in the 80's but they had the most prolific offense over course of the decade; why does the formula suddenly not work?!?

JKool · 05-07-2008, 07:41 PM

Jean,

The 49ers didn't have a dominating defense in the 80's but they had the most prolific offense over course of the decade; why does the formula suddenly not work?!?

That seems like quite a fair question. I'm certainly on board with the idea that teams that tend to win SBs have great defenses, but why should it be inconceivable that a team with a good (not great) defense and a great offense can't win? Is that actually inconceivable?

RickyInKenner · 05-07-2008, 07:50 PM

the 80s were a different era. more teams ran the ball back then. that has a lot to do with it.

JKool · 05-07-2008, 07:58 PM

That doesn't seem right. The 9ers are pretty much famous for introducing the "pass first" offenses that we see a lot of today.

05-06-2008, 07:36 PM	#81
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879	Re: payton wants shockey................... please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't believe the giants would ever have made the playoffs without the play of shockey in some games. shockey had a part in not one, but a few games that the giants won in order to even get them to the wild card playoffs...... so, how important was he? or, how unimportant was he? how about some stats......... Michael Eisen - Story - 1.1 Giants Stats Review - Giants.com Game On: Jeremy Shockey Giants Bits \| New York Giants Blog » 2007 » September Michael Eisen - Story - 12.18 Tuesday Stats Review - Giants.com and giants forum talking about him.... New York Giants Message Boards - Dealing with a possible reality that Shockey is a Saint now, one can argue shockey did not do it alone, and i'd agree 100%, but i do believe without his play in the regular season the giants would never have got to the wild card spot, and the patriots would be 19-0.. so, put that in your pipe and smoke it.............smitty
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879

05-06-2008, 08:26 PM	#82
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: payton wants shockey................... Originally Posted by Euphoria seriously? I mean seriously??? you think that seriously??? Seriously. I mean seriously. I think that seriously. Why you ask?

05-07-2008, 01:07 AM	#83
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: payton wants shockey................... Re: Throwing his Coach under the bus... Coughlin was getting thrown under the bus, but even he admitted he had to change to accomplish what he did... Coaches like Coughlin and Mora have limited their success because they wanted some to "fit" a system... Walsh and Belichick have multiple Superbowls because they take their system and modify it around their players; latest example, Moss, Malcontent Extreme, has probably the best season a WR ever has and his attitude suddenly changes...and why?!? They got him the ball and he knew he'd deliver... Shockey knows he's a diff-maker at his position and he just wants to show it... I'd like to know who'd be three options ahead of Shockey on offense... Eric Johnson isn't exactly a blocking threat, so when he's in, well they know; and Billy Miller could be upgraded, but he's not blowing people up on the line... Shockey is the most complete TE in the league and Payton will be able to maximize his talents because he's not caught up in putting him into his specific cookie mould...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

05-07-2008, 02:52 PM	#84
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: payton wants shockey................... I'll summarize the last two pages of responses. Offense winning the SB: If the defense didn't hold NE to 14 points, there would have been no comeback. Randy Moss getting the ball: Brees is going to distribute the ball. He's done it his whole career. Shockey a needed cog in the Giants offense: then why are they shopping him in a trade. Not a problem in the locker room: That's the Saints locker room right now. Want an example. A quote from Deuce discussing bringing in Soft Alexander: Alexander to visit Saints after Bengals- NOLA.com "I anticipate they'll continue to look at veteran running backs," McAllister said. "They have to have some protection just in case there are any setbacks with my rehab, even though there haven't been any. It never hurts to have a Plan B." Now that's a class act. I actually looked for something from Shockey about Boss. The only thing I found was the other way around. Boss planning on Shockeyâ€™s return - Utica, NY 13501 - The Observer-Dispatch Ya'll can be dismissive of team chemistry if you like. But you won't like the results when you bring trouble into the locker room. BTW problems at work? Got em. 3 people have quit over them. Personally I don't find it very productive. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

05-07-2008, 03:39 PM	#85
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Re: payton wants shockey................... People do change... as Moss did in New England. So why can't Shockey should he become a Saint? For not being a class act in New York, I'm sure he's enjoying his Superbowl ring.

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05-07-2008, 04:12 PM	#86
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: payton wants shockey................... Originally Posted by papz People do change... as Moss did in New England. So why can't Shockey should he become a Saint? For not being a class act in New York, I'm sure he's enjoying his Superbowl ring. Some people change and some don't. The main thing that changed Moss was his production and being happy. Moss still showed up to practice.

05-07-2008, 06:53 PM	#87
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: payton wants shockey................... Moss, as a Raider, quit...he flat freakin quit... Shockey didn't like losing and not getting a chance to contribute without maximizing his talents; he complained, he fussed, but he did not quit... If the Saints have a culture conducive to winning, as Coach Payton said was his priority when he arrived (changing the culture), then why would you think he'd come in and be a problem... The Saints definitely need to improve the defense, but if they can put the offense in the top three with Shockey, even with a suspect running game, why not make the move?!? The 49ers didn't have a dominating defense in the 80's but they had the most prolific offense over course of the decade; why does the formula suddenly not work?!?
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

05-07-2008, 07:41 PM	#88
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Re: payton wants shockey................... Jean, The 49ers didn't have a dominating defense in the 80's but they had the most prolific offense over course of the decade; why does the formula suddenly not work?!? That seems like quite a fair question. I'm certainly on board with the idea that teams that tend to win SBs have great defenses, but why should it be inconceivable that a team with a good (not great) defense and a great offense can't win? Is that actually inconceivable?

05-07-2008, 07:50 PM	#89
RickyInKenner Registered Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 60	Re: payton wants shockey................... the 80s were a different era. more teams ran the ball back then. that has a lot to do with it.
RickyInKenner Registered Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 60

05-07-2008, 07:58 PM	#90
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Re: payton wants shockey................... That doesn't seem right. The 9ers are pretty much famous for introducing the "pass first" offenses that we see a lot of today.