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Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Gay is much better than people here are giving him credit for. I have watch him since he came to new england. Is he a top 5 shut down corner? No. He is a solid CB that is smart. That ...

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Old 04-18-2008, 05:21 AM   #71
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Gay is much better than people here are giving him credit for. I have watch him since he came to new england. Is he a top 5 shut down corner? No. He is a solid CB that is smart. That puts him with M&M. There is not much difference between the to. They play ball and are darn good at it. That what you have in Gay. If M&M retires tomorrow you have his replacement. To me thats an upgrade to the secondary.
Young? well after what I saw last year I have a lot of faith in the kid. He came a long way last year and still has a way to go. The small school jump. I think you will see him improve again this year by leaps and bounds. Is he ready for the Island? Probably not but he may be out there in 2009.
As for trading up, who to say Dorsey is the player? It makes sense needs wise but thats about it. Either one of the Longs, McFadden and Gholston are all options also. We could also be ready to trade almost any player on the roster on draft day to. This draft maybe a mirror image of the 2007 draft. Trades happening on both days. Players added through both the draft and trades. I am looking forward to seeing the chess match this year.

"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins
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Old 04-18-2008, 07:24 AM   #72
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Originally Posted by dasaints26 View Post
Is homerism a word?
lol. Well, let's define word:

a unit of language, consisting of one or more spoken sounds or their written representation, that functions as a principal carrier of meaning.

You may not find "homerism" in Webster's, but it does fit the definition and is, thus, a word.

I wouldn't bother responding to the "hater" comment a tiger fan wrote following your post. Some people see the world through purple and gold sunglasses which taints their ability to see that not everything said about the team must contain a prefix like "greatest" or "best", etc.

I thought your post simply pointed out that the team did a lot to win the championship with Dorsey standing on the sidelines. That doesn't sound like hater language to me.
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:25 AM   #73
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Originally Posted by FrenzyFan View Post
Almost everything you assume will be a positive for our defense is a possibility, not a certainty. All of your assertions display a lot of optimism, which is great. They are by no means a done deal.

McKenzie may defy the odds and be ready at the beginning of the season, but that would be well outside the norm for his injury. Recovery is typically right around 12 months and he tore his ACL on Dec 23. If he's ready by the season opener, that would be 8 months from the injury (not the surgery since I don't know exactly when he had it) - optimistic I would say.

Gay is absolutely a system CB. He's played more man-to-man than Jason David, but he's not even a starter for the Patriots. For the record, he was an undrafted FA. He started part of one year (2004) due to injuries to both starting corners. He was out parts of both 2005 and 2006 with injuries (placed on IR). He played in 2007, mostly as a nickel back and backup safety. I like the signing but I'm realistic about his abilities.

Usama might be the next shutdown corner, but so far we haven't seen it and thus it's just as possible he could be the next Jason David. Vilma may be everything he used to be, I hope he is but until he shows something on the field it's all "maybe". Dan Morgan might be healthy, might start, and might stay healthy.

Since you didn't talk about any of the others, I'll assume you agree with all the rest. Without the very rosy optimism, that still leaves a lot of question about almost every spot on our defense. The only area on our D I am comfortable with is DE. DT is a weakness, but not even in the same arena as LB and CB.
I am also not 100% sold on the strength of our CB and LB situation. But there are two things that still make a possible trade to get Dorsey a HUGE upgrade for our defense. First off, you are not guaranteeing upgrades at all those positions by staying put. Again, you can draft 3 guys at each of those positions but outside of getting Rivers, you likely will not see any of the guys you draft make much of an impact. IMO there are no impact players at DT aside from Dorsey and Ellis. CBs, no matter how good, take time to develop especially in the type of defense that we play. So staying put you get an impact player in Rivers. Rivers versus Dorsey - who makes the rest of your defense better? As Euph stated and has been stated before, the things that an impact DT opens up for the rest of your defense is tremendous. Anyone who has ever played a lick on the defense of any level football team knows the value of having a DT ahead or beside you who must be often accounted for by two lineman each play. I hear the concerns about the money for a #2 instead of a #10, but this is team that is ready to win soon.
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:43 AM   #74
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan View Post
I am also not 100% sold on the strength of our CB and LB situation. But there are two things that still make a possible trade to get Dorsey a HUGE upgrade for our defense. First off, you are not guaranteeing upgrades at all those positions by staying put. Again, you can draft 3 guys at each of those positions but outside of getting Rivers, you likely will not see any of the guys you draft make much of an impact. IMO there are no impact players at DT aside from Dorsey and Ellis. CBs, no matter how good, take time to develop especially in the type of defense that we play. So staying put you get an impact player in Rivers. Rivers versus Dorsey - who makes the rest of your defense better? As Euph stated and has been stated before, the things that an impact DT opens up for the rest of your defense is tremendous. Anyone who has ever played a lick on the defense of any level football team knows the value of having a DT ahead or beside you who must be often accounted for by two lineman each play. I hear the concerns about the money for a #2 instead of a #10, but this is team that is ready to win soon.

excellent post.. great points all the way around

on a side note.. i dont know why everyone is so concerned with our cap space.. we are about 30 million under the cap at the moment and will have plent of room to resign all of our big name FAs next year no matter who we pick this year
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:47 AM   #75
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

So basically what we are saying is anyone is up for us to get if we trade up to number 2. And if its Matt Ryan there will be alot of pissed off Saints fans. Atleast we can agree on its defense if we trade up.
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Old 04-18-2008, 09:19 AM   #76
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Originally Posted by ScottyRo View Post
lol. Well, let's define word:

a unit of language, consisting of one or more spoken sounds or their written representation, that functions as a principal carrier of meaning.

You may not find "homerism" in Webster's, but it does fit the definition and is, thus, a word.

I wouldn't bother responding to the "hater" comment a tiger fan wrote following your post. Some people see the world through purple and gold sunglasses which taints their ability to see that not everything said about the team must contain a prefix like "greatest" or "best", etc.

I thought your post simply pointed out that the team did a lot to win the championship with Dorsey standing on the sidelines. That doesn't sound like hater language to me.
When was Dorsey sitting on the sidelines?
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Old 04-18-2008, 09:29 AM   #77
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Originally Posted by gandhi1007 View Post
When was Dorsey sitting on the sidelines?
Um, when the offense and FG units were on the field.
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Old 04-18-2008, 09:33 AM   #78
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

yes but we all know that "Defense wins Championships"!!!!!!!!!! and Dorsey was the Leader of that Defense
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Old 04-18-2008, 10:01 AM   #79
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

I'm going to say this & then I'm going to leave it alone....

Dorsey won a national championship, the Outland award, the Nagurski award, the Lombardi award, & the Lott award. To think that he won all these things while being double teamed & hurt most of the season, surely one would have to see his worth.

Now...if that's not proof enough that he's the best defensive player in this year's draft, what else do you need. Here's an idea....watch video of him busting through double teams & making plays in the backfield for the last three seasons & make an educated decision. Whether you want to call it "Purple & Gold Glasses Syndrome" or whatever....the simple fact that he was the best defensive player last year has already been decided by the awards he received by the people who evaluate the players in the NCAA.

ScottyRo....could your opinion on Dorsey be tainted by the fact that he dominated your home team Hokies this year to the point they hardly saw the LSU side of the field? Adibi hardly made any plays in that game & got abused like a $2 hooker. I'd still be happy picking Adibi in the 2nd or 3rd round, because I still feel he's a good LB. C'mon man....take those Hokie glasses off & see Glen Dorsey for the dominant DT he is.

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Old 04-18-2008, 10:54 AM   #80
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Originally Posted by gandhi1007 View Post
I'm going to say this & then I'm going to leave it alone....

Dorsey won a national championship, the Outland award, the Nagurski award, the Lombardi award, & the Lott award. To think that he won all these things while being double teamed & hurt most of the season, surely one would have to see his worth.

Now...if that's not proof enough that he's the best defensive player in this year's draft, what else do you need. Here's an idea....watch video of him busting through double teams & making plays in the backfield for the last three seasons & make an educated decision. Whether you want to call it "Purple & Gold Glasses Syndrome" or whatever....the simple fact that he was the best defensive player last year has already been decided by the awards he received by the people who evaluate the players in the NCAA.

ScottyRo....could your opinion on Dorsey be tainted by the fact that he dominated your home team Hokies this year to the point they hardly saw the LSU side of the field? Adibi hardly made any plays in that game & got abused like a $2 hooker. I'd still be happy picking Adibi in the 2nd or 3rd round, because I still feel he's a good LB. C'mon man....take those Hokie glasses off & see Glen Dorsey for the dominant DT he is.
Awww that explains it he's a Hokie fan lol....Now I can Understand that outrage after taking that beat down like they did.
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