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Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by gandhi1007 I'm going to say this & then I'm going to leave it alone.... Dorsey won a national championship, the Outland award, the Nagurski award, the Lombardi award, & the Lott award. To think that he won ...

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Old 04-18-2008, 12:06 PM   #81
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Originally Posted by gandhi1007 View Post
I'm going to say this & then I'm going to leave it alone....

Dorsey won a national championship, the Outland award, the Nagurski award, the Lombardi award, & the Lott award. To think that he won all these things while being double teamed & hurt most of the season, surely one would have to see his worth.
All I was originally trying to express that with so much hype about him every game, I was expecting more production. He averaged 5 or 6 tackles per game last season. You'll have to tell me if that is good b/c I don't know comparatively. Hype goes a long way and I wonder whether he'd have won all of those awards had the team not won the championship. I never said he wasn't a good player at LSU.

Now...if that's not proof enough that he's the best defensive player in this year's draft, what else do you need. Here's an idea....watch video of him busting through double teams & making plays in the backfield for the last three seasons & make an educated decision. Whether you want to call it "Purple & Gold Glasses Syndrome" or whatever....the simple fact that he was the best defensive player last year has already been decided by the awards he received by the people who evaluate the players in the NCAA.
Granted, he could very well be the best D player in the draft. That doesn't translate into sure thing. Review the ESPN article about the 50 biggest busts. Many of those were viewed with equal regard BEFORE the draft.

ScottyRo....could your opinion on Dorsey be tainted by the fact that he dominated your home team Hokies this year to the point they hardly saw the LSU side of the field? Adibi hardly made any plays in that game & got abused like a $2 hooker. I'd still be happy picking Adibi in the 2nd or 3rd round, because I still feel he's a good LB. C'mon man....take those Hokie glasses off & see Glen Dorsey for the dominant DT he is.
Hahaha! Nice try, but I moved to Virginia two weeks ago from Louisiana ...the Hokies are not my home team. Besides, this has nothing at all to do with what college team I root for as much as it is about my concern of my favorite NFL team making a deal to move up and get him when I believe that every player is a bust risk. So many people on here were writing good things about moving up b/c he is a sure thing that are clearly linked to their love of LSU (and Dorsey) that I wanted to point out that there are concerns about risk here.

My glasses are black & gold and I am not going to ignore the risks just because he helped LSU win a championship.
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Old 04-18-2008, 12:11 PM   #82
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Originally Posted by lsutigerfan View Post
Awww that explains it he's a Hokie fan lol....Now I can Understand that outrage after taking that beat down like they did.
Again, HAHAHA

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY OFF.

I'm a SAINTS FAN FIRST AND FOREMOST. College football is just the farm league for the league that I love. Some of you obviously don't have the Saints first on your list of favorite teams. Hey, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't try to poke holes in me because of where I live when you are obviously letting your love for LSU affect the way you see things for the Saints.
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Old 04-18-2008, 12:22 PM   #83
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Originally Posted by ScottyRo View Post
All I was originally trying to express that with so much hype about him every game, I was expecting more production. He averaged 5 or 6 tackles per game last season. You'll have to tell me if that is good b/c I don't know comparatively. Hype goes a long way and I wonder whether he'd have won all of those awards had the team not won the championship. I never said he wasn't a good player at LSU.



Granted, he could very well be the best D player in the draft. That doesn't translate into sure thing. Review the ESPN article about the 50 biggest busts. Many of those were viewed with equal regard BEFORE the draft.



Hahaha! Nice try, but I moved to Virginia two weeks ago from Louisiana ...the Hokies are not my home team. Besides, this has nothing at all to do with what college team I root for as much as it is about my concern of my favorite NFL team making a deal to move up and get him when I believe that every player is a bust risk. So many people on here were writing good things about moving up b/c he is a sure thing that are clearly linked to their love of LSU (and Dorsey) that I wanted to point out that there are concerns about risk here.

My glasses are black & gold and I am not going to ignore the risks just because he helped LSU win a championship.
As with any draft, there is always the possibility of a bad choice. However...in this year's draft, there are only two guy's I would be willing to move up for: Glen Dorsey or Darren McFadden. Not just b/c they are from the SEC (although I will admit that I am bias), but b/c they have excelled in the nation's toughest conference for 3 years in a row. As you stated above...nothing is a sure thing. However, Dorsey is as close to a sure thing in the draft as anything I have seen in the past 10 years. He would be worth the cost, especially when you consider that this is a position of great need for the Saints.

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Old 04-18-2008, 01:18 PM   #84
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Originally Posted by ScottyRo View Post
All I was originally trying to express that with so much hype about him every game, I was expecting more production. He averaged 5 or 6 tackles per game last season. You'll have to tell me if that is good b/c I don't know comparatively. Hype goes a long way and I wonder whether he'd have won all of those awards had the team not won the championship. I never said he wasn't a good player at LSU.



Granted, he could very well be the best D player in the draft. That doesn't translate into sure thing. Review the ESPN article about the 50 biggest busts. Many of those were viewed with equal regard BEFORE the draft.



Hahaha! Nice try, but I moved to Virginia two weeks ago from Louisiana ...the Hokies are not my home team. Besides, this has nothing at all to do with what college team I root for as much as it is about my concern of my favorite NFL team making a deal to move up and get him when I believe that every player is a bust risk. So many people on here were writing good things about moving up b/c he is a sure thing that are clearly linked to their love of LSU (and Dorsey) that I wanted to point out that there are concerns about risk here.

My glasses are black & gold and I am not going to ignore the risks just because he helped LSU win a championship.
Keep in my mind that stats are not the only thing to look at. Im sure you have seen the videos and game film available to the public on Dorsey. It is not only the tangibles - the power, the strength, the motor, the burst, the quickness for a man his size, agility, penetration ability, stoutness at the point of attack, leverage, and range. Its also the intangibles that take away much of the bust factor - hard worker, toughness, terrific teammate, smarts, awareness, experience and instincts. Again, its not just the measurables or stats. And I can not stress enough - the thing about Dorsey that makes him so valuable is the ability to make everyone around him better. Think Kevin Williams of Minnesota or Haynesworth in Tennessee. These guys take the players around them and make them better. Dorsey is that type of player.
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Old 04-18-2008, 02:21 PM   #85
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan View Post
Keep in my mind that stats are not the only thing to look at. Im sure you have seen the videos and game film available to the public on Dorsey. It is not only the tangibles - the power, the strength, the motor, the burst, the quickness for a man his size, agility, penetration ability, stoutness at the point of attack, leverage, and range. Its also the intangibles that take away much of the bust factor - hard worker, toughness, terrific teammate, smarts, awareness, experience and instincts. Again, its not just the measurables or stats. And I can not stress enough - the thing about Dorsey that makes him so valuable is the ability to make everyone around him better. Think Kevin Williams of Minnesota or Haynesworth in Tennessee. These guys take the players around them and make them better. Dorsey is that type of player.
Yes you don't go by stats alone.
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Old 04-18-2008, 02:30 PM   #86
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Stats might not be amazing, but I look at two things: 1) he played hurt for more than half the season after getting cheap shotted, and 2) he was consistently double and triple teamed. When he was healthy, he could fight through those double teams, but he struggled a little more after the injury. When he was healthy, he was hands down the best defensive player in the country. Nobody could stop him with just one guy. Against Florida, the one play in the entire game that they didn't double team him was on the final unsuccessful drive for Florida, and Dorsey head slapped the sh** of the lineman, knocked him out of the way, and then planted Tebow. But perhaps the one play that I remember the most that makes me certain he's the best defensive player in the draft when healthy is this:

YouTube - LSU's Glenn Dorsey = Domination
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Old 04-18-2008, 03:17 PM   #87
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Yeah gotta love that one.
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Old 04-18-2008, 04:30 PM   #88
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan View Post
I am also not 100% sold on the strength of our CB and LB situation. But there are two things that still make a possible trade to get Dorsey a HUGE upgrade for our defense. First off, you are not guaranteeing upgrades at all those positions by staying put. Again, you can draft 3 guys at each of those positions but outside of getting Rivers, you likely will not see any of the guys you draft make much of an impact. IMO there are no impact players at DT aside from Dorsey and Ellis. CBs, no matter how good, take time to develop especially in the type of defense that we play. So staying put you get an impact player in Rivers. Rivers versus Dorsey - who makes the rest of your defense better? As Euph stated and has been stated before, the things that an impact DT opens up for the rest of your defense is tremendous. Anyone who has ever played a lick on the defense of any level football team knows the value of having a DT ahead or beside you who must be often accounted for by two lineman each play. I hear the concerns about the money for a #2 instead of a #10, but this is team that is ready to win soon.
Good points, but I have to stand on the idea that I'm not comfortable giving up Rivers (assuming he would be our guy) and our second round pick in this draft, for Dorsey. The argument that you may not get an upgrade for this year applies to every singly draft pick, including the #1 over all. You can look at examples of this everywhere and at every position on the field. The NFL level game is nothing like the college game and therefore there are no guarantees.

It's all a bunch of what-ifs, and I recognize that. Still feel like our defense needs more urgent help at CB and at LB than at DT. I think Dorsey will be great, just not sure if his skills can compensate for all our weaknesses. It might be better idea to keep our two early picks and try to fill more holes.

I like a great DT but when I think of the keys to great defenses, I think of LBs. For every "Mean Joe" Green, you have Ham and Lambert. I couldn't remember the name of the NT during the dome patrol years (had to look it up - Jim Wilks), but I can tell you the names of all four LBs.

Just my two cents.

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Old 04-18-2008, 04:34 PM   #89
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

but its the DTs that keep the olinemen off of them linebackers allowing them to make the plays... DTs do the dirty work.. games are won and lost in the trenches
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Old 04-18-2008, 05:15 PM   #90
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!

Originally Posted by pakowitz View Post
but its the DTs that keep the olinemen off of them linebackers allowing them to make the plays... DTs do the dirty work.. games are won and lost in the trenches
I agree while the LB gets all praise its the DT that makes it happen.
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