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Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; I am just glad everyone here is not in the war room come Saturday. I think we would miss our pick....
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04-22-2008, 08:07 PM
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#132 |
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Site Donor 2018
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
Reading this R2-R4 picks argument have no impact players, mediocre records argument...
Well, isn't that special...sound like SATAN to me... Let's look at some R3 picks in the about the last ten years, shall we... Curtis Martin, RB, Boston (NE to the rest of you) Tedy Bruschi, LB, NE Ronde Barber, CB, Bucs Mike Vrabel, LB, Steelers (now of NE) Jason Taylor, DE, Dolphins Hines Ward, WR, Steelers Olin Kreutz, C, Baers Joey Porter, LB, Steelers Laveranues Coles, WR, JETS Brian Westbrook, RB, Philly Jason Witten, TE, Cowboys Lance Briggs, LB, Baers Kevin Curtis, WR, Rams Ricky Manning, CB, Panthers Angelo Crowell, LB, Bills (And Haslett picked Cie Grant earlier in R3, Swell) Huggie Bear Fargas, RB, Raidars Chris Simms, QB, Bucs Matt Schaub, QB, Falcones (Brett Favre, Schaub, Gotta Love Those Falcon Choices on who to keep) Chris Cooley, TE, Redskins Bernard Berrian, WR, Baers Frank Gore, RB, San Fran Justin Tuck, DE, New York Giants Ellis Hobs, DB, NE Nick Kaczur, OL, NE James Jones, WR Green Bay Took about 5 minutes to cut/paste these guys while eating a piece of cake being forced-fed by my daughter, really... And Joe Montana was a Round 3 pick...sooooo.... the R2-R4 picks argument has no impact players is pretty much right there with the Earth is Flat Theory... And granted, though the Draft is somewhat a Roulette... I like what Grant Hill said of the famous/infamous ending to the Duke/Kentucky elite 8 game, "Luck favors the Prepared Man" Do your preparation... Bet as many numbers as you can... And the magic will happen... 90% of NFL front office jobs are for elite country club types who see less stress than a Cruise Director, but a select few take their jobs seriously, appreciate the game of football, and display a forthright work ethic that gets results... Man, I miss Jim Finks... As far as this On/Off year thing, the Saints need to gain picks as after their Off Year both at the draft and on the field, they better get it On are the fan base will turn, especially with only seven games at Da Dome this year... |
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It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...
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04-22-2008, 08:26 PM
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#133 |
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Part Time Pimp
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,967
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
Originally Posted by jeanpierre
Just for sh**s & giggles......how many of those great 3rd rounders were DT's? 
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04-22-2008, 09:10 PM
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#134 |
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Site Donor 2018
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
Well, one could argue their position is now due...I like Dre Moore (though he's expected to be a R2 pick), Ahtyba Rubin, Pat Sims, Marcus Harrison, Frank Okam...
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04-22-2008, 09:35 PM
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#135 |
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100th Post
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 449
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
Originally Posted by jeanpierre
Good find...but also keep in mind that you named 25 players from the past 10 years...assuming 32 picks (granted at times there were less teams and also there might be more than 32 due to comp picks) times 10 years is 320 3rd round picks...25/320= 7.8%. 7.8% times 32 picks in this years third round= 2.4. So theoretically, of all the picks in the third round, 2-3 of the players would be in the same status as the 25 guys you named. Again, value can be found all throughout the draft whether the value of the player is a franchise, all pro player, a quality starter, a career backup, or a special teams ace. Value is certainly available in the middle rounds but the chances of a guy turning into a quality starter isnt always so great. |
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04-22-2008, 09:42 PM
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#136 |
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100th Post
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 449
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
Looking at the 2005 draft (3 years is a good benchmark for the development of a player).
First Round First round 1 San Francisco Alex Smith QB Utah 2 Miami Ronnie Brown RB Auburn 3 Cleveland Braylon Edwards WR Michigan 4 Chicago Cedric Benson RB Texas 5 Tampa Bay Carnell Williams RB Auburn 6 Tennessee Pacman Jones CB West Virginia 7 Minnesota (from Oakland) Troy Williamson WR South Carolina 8 Arizona Antrel Rolle CB Miami 9 Washington Carlos Rogers CB Auburn 10 Detroit Mike Williams WR Southern California 11 Dallas Demarcus Ware LB Troy State 12 San Diego (from NY Giants) Shawn Merriman LB Maryland 13 New Orleans (from Houston) Jammal Brown OT Oklahoma 14 Carolina Thomas Davis SS Georgia 15 Kansas City Derrick Johnson LB Texas 16 Houston (from New Orleans) Travis Johnson DT Florida State 17 Cincinnati David Pollack DE Georgia 18 Minnesota Erasmus James DE Wisconsin 19 St. Louis Alex Barron OT Florida State 20 Dallas (from Buffalo) Marcus Spears DE LSU 21 Jacksonville Matt Jones WR Arkansas 22 Baltimore Mark Clayton WR Oklahoma 23 Oakland (from Seattle) Fabian Washington CB Nebraska 24 Green Bay Aaron Rodgers QB California 25 Washington (from Denver) Jason Campbell QB Auburn 26 Seattle (from NY Jets thru Oakland) Chris Spencer C Mississippi 27 Atlanta Roddy White WR Alabama-Birmingham 28 San Diego Luis Castillo DT Northwestern 29 Indianapolis Marlin Jackson CB Michigan 30 Pittsburgh Heath Miller TE Virginia 31 Philadelphia Mike Patterson DT Southern California 32 New England Logan Mankins OT Fresno State Of those guys, I glanced through and identified 18 guys give or take that can be considered quality starters in the league. Third round 65 San Francisco Frank Gore RB Miami 66 St. Louis (from Miami) OJ Atogwe FS Stanford 67 Cleveland Charlie Frye QB Akron 68 Tennessee Courtney Roby WR Indiana 69 Oakland Andrew Walter QB Arizona State 70 Miami (from Chicago) Channing Crowder LB Florida 71 Tampa Bay Alex Smith TE Stanford 72 Detroit Stanley Wilson CB Stanford 73 Houston (from Dallas) Vernand Morency RB Oklahoma State 74 New York Giants Justin Tuck DE Notre Dame 75 Arizona Eric Green CB Virginia Tech 76 Denver (from Washington) Karl Paymah CB Washington State 77 Philadelphia (from Kansas City) Ryan Moats RB Louisiana Tech 78 Oakland (from Houston) Kirk Morrison LB San Diego State 79 Carolina Ethan Mathis OG Alabama 80 Minnesota Dustin Fox CB Ohio State 81 St. Louis Richie Incognito C Nebraska 82 New Orleans Alfred Fincher LB UConn 83 Cincinnati Chris Henry WR West Virginia 84 New England (from Baltimore) Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa State 85 Seattle David Greene QB Georgia 86 Buffalo Kevin Everett TE Miami 87 Jacksonville Scott Starks CB Wisconsin 88 New York Jets Sione Pouha DT Utah 89 Carolina (from Green Bay) Atiyyah Ellison DT Missouri Denver Forfeited pick 90 Atlanta Jordan Beck LB Cal-Poly 91 Tampa Bay (from San Diego) Chris Colmer OT North Carolina State 92 Indianapolis Vinnie Burns DE Kentucky 93 Pittsburgh Trai Essex OT Northwestern 94 San Francisco (from Philadelphia) Adam Snyder OT Oregon 95 Arizona (from New England) Darryl Blackstock LB Virginia 96(c) Tennessee Brandon Jones WR Oklahoma 97(c) Denver Domonique Foxworth CB North Carolina 98(c) Seattle Leroy Hill LB Clemson 99(c) Kansas City Dustin Colquitt P Tennessee 100(c) New England Nick Kaczur OG Toledo 101(c) Denver Maurice Clarett RB Ohio State I glanced and counted 7 guys who I would consider quality starters. Obviously, you are going to have a better chance of getting a quality starter in the first round than in the third. Just looking at this draft would you rather have a Ronnie Brown or Braylon Edwards (2 and 3) or Mike Williams and Josh Bullocks (ironic). Again, this is a vanilla way of looking at things but you have a much better chance of trading up and getting an impact player than the guys you will get staying put. There is certainly value in the middle rounds but as expected the prospect is much much more difficult to identify than in the first round. |
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04-22-2008, 10:05 PM
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#137 |
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LB Mentallity
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
There is always value to be had 2 to 3. 4th has also given us some good players. This year 2 through 4 looks to be one of the best mix of players we have seen in a long time. If the price is to high because of the lack of elite players in the top 5. Then you have to say no. Chris Long and Dorsey is all that is left. The others do not belong as high as they are. Teams know this and will try to cash in.
Do not sell the hen house before you sell the chickens. |
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"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins
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04-22-2008, 10:19 PM
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#138 |
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Site Donor 2018
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
What 18 guys would you consider quality starters?!? I see maybe half that number...
The argument is still made that their is significant talent in all rounds and it's putting together a total draft not just R1 picks that make a championship TEAM... Pats, Giants, Colts, look at their drafts and it's not just R1 picks that made their teams... And suppose, given his injury history, Dorsey goes down, who do you have to step up or pick up their game from their position?!? (Added) And in '03, didn't we move up to get "Can't Miss" Johnathan Sullivan when we could have had Troy Polamalu, Calvin Pace, Dallas Clark, Nnamdi Asomugha with later R1 picks?!? Again, too many people want to put Dorsey in a Wedding Dress (Rickey Williams Syndrome) |
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It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...
Last edited by jeanpierre; 04-22-2008 at 10:23 PM.. |
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04-22-2008, 10:33 PM
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#139 |
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The Dark Overlord
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: dirty south
Posts: 3,450
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
Originally Posted by jeanpierre
um no... we had relatively obscure johnathan sullivan.. he wasnt highly reguarded which is why everyone was scratching their heads when the saints traded up for him when he likely would have fallen to us at 16 |
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04-22-2008, 10:36 PM
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#140 |
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100th Post
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 449
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Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
Originally Posted by jeanpierre
1. Ronnie Brown
2. Braylon Edwards 3. Carlos Rogers 4. Demarcus Ware 5. Shawn Merriman 6. Jamaal Brown 7. Thomas Davis 8. Derrick Johnson 9. Travis Johnson 10. Mark Clayton 11. Fabian Washington 12. Jason CAmpbell 13. Chris Spencer 14. Luis Castillo 15. Marlin Jackson 16. Heath Miller 17. Logan Mankins Miscounted by 1. Oops. 17 players. |
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