Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Gruden should visit more often :bng:.

Especially considering how lethargic the Saints offense was in 2022. More motion, and play action concepts are welcomed.

Say what you will about Gruden but he worked well with DCarr back in the day.

Perspective.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

I certainly wouldn't put it past Jordan to continue playing at this high level for two or three more years. You could say the same for Demario Davis. They are both freaks.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

With Payton out of the picture perhaps the Saints are planning on bringing their analytics into the 21st century.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Bringing in Gruden surely didn't hurt. I respect his skill set and offensive mind.

Will it help? ... maybe.

Shout out to LD Bell (Dennis Allen & co) for doing something different this offseason.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Interesting. Does this mean Gruden is possibly our next HC if Allen struggles again? Not a prediction btw

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

New Orleans Saints paying $24.5 million in dead money to 8 former players

So the cap is looking up?

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

We are paying Ian Book??!! Man what a wasted pick Payton used there.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Nine out of ten QB's drafted could be classified as a wasted pick then. There's some schools of thought that you should draft a QB somewhere pretty much every year. There are picks "wasted" every year by every team anyway on non-QB's that never make it so you might as well throw one at the wall and see if it sticks.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Payton has what, 4 QB draft busts over 16 years?

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Any player, regardless of position, that is drafted in the 4th round, spends one year on the team, and you are paying for in dead money two seasons later is a wasted pick IMO.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Pretty low rate.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

And you are to expect some wasted picks. There's really no way to avoid them. Might as well waste it on a QB flyer rather than some random LB.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

There you go Guido. Trying to argue against me that Ian Book wasn’t a wasted pick. Enjoy your tango alone.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Nope. Totally agree he was a wasted pick. Just pointing out that wasted picks are a part of drafting. But, of course, nobody knows when or where or what pick will end up being a waste. If you never take a chance you'll never get that dance.

;)

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Fair enough. But as a poker player/gambler myself you look at odds. Many more 4th round picks at DL, OL, DB, WR, LBs make rosters than 4th round QBs. It’s a calculated reach Payton always missed on when it came to drafting. I guess I’m saying i would only draft a QB in the first two rounds or a project/physical specimen like Taysom Hill type in 7th round. Otherwise you will likely miss out on a rotational depth player that could excel at a position that has more roster spots available than QB does. Just my opinion of course.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

But no player is more important to a team as a position than is the QB. I can easily see the perspective that it is always worth the chance to hit that big one over some possible rotational player once every few years. I'd do it more often than Payton, however.

Busts are unavoidable at any position. Rarely are there no draft busts by any team. Usually more than one per franchise. And they can occur in any round. It's all part of the game.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Except for the fact he didn't hit on any.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

History of 4th rounders under SP.
Jahri Evans -- HOF
Antonio Pittman -- BUST
Chip Vaughn --who? BUST
Al Woods -- LSU player SP shoulda kept. Had a productive career.
Nick Toon -- BUST
Khari Fortt -- BUST
Rick Leonard -- BUST
CJ Gardner-Johnson -- Solid contributor
Ian Book -- Yet another johnny-come-lately-overated ND QB. Chapter has closed on Book. BUST. Only good one is Joe Montana

History of Saints Drafts

So only three players hit as 4th rounders under SP, one of which the LSU kid he should have kept. And he's still playing, now in Seattle.

Jeff Ireland has helped us. However he can't remain unscathed due to the Ian Book pick. We'll see how it pans out since SP's departure.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Very rarely does anyone hit on a QB taken outside of the top few draft slots. It does happen, though, and is why the chance needs taken. There's even the outside chance they can be good enough to be a backup someday. That in itself could be considered a successful pick.

That said, most teams would have drafted ten QB's over that 16 year stretch. And likely would have missed on eight of them. The draft has never been the primary source of starting QB's for our Saints. Not since Manning, of course. Although, I doubt that is entirely predetermined. Just the way things have worked out over the years.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Few generally means about 3, perhaps 4-5. I would say it is rarer to hit on a QB outside the top 10, top dozen, or top half of the 1st round. But in the last decade or so there may actually be more big hits drafted 6th-12th than 1st-5th. I just say this, knowing its a minor distinction, because its not healthy to get into the psychology that if Derek Carr does not work out we need to sell the farm and trade out of the draft for 3 years to get the #1 overall pick. NFL teams have not been great at figuring out among the elite 3 or so QBs each draft who is the elite of the elite.

It's a popular cliche in business circles that 'that's how we've always done it' is the most dangerous thing you can say. I think other things are more dangerous, but that being said its not really relevent that the Saints have not hit on a QB in the draft since Archie Manning. Most of the teams that have won Super Bowls the last few decades have hit on a QB in the draft and the fact that we happened to get Brees in free agency is nice, but it doesn't mean we can throw out the model that has worked for most teams. Montana, Aikman, Elway, Brady, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Maholmes, etc were all draft picks, many not in the top half of the first round. So we should probably still consider that plan A and free agency plan B when we need our next QB because it works more often and tends to produce more Super Bowls when it works (because you get the QB on a cheap salary). I think its also important to consider that blockbuster trades to get into the top 3 picks have not produced many of those success stories. And that makes sense because yeah maybe you get a great qb cheap but you saddle that QB with more expectations and pressure and then you have less draft picks to give that qb protection, weapons, and a defense.

Drafting a good backup QB can be a successful pick if you need a backup QB. If you are paying $15 million to a TE/QB who can't run routes very well and is 3rd on your TE depth chart and $10 million to your previous QB who is still an above average backup to delay a dead cap hit that will be just as tempting to pay to delay next year and the year after, maybe backup QB is not your greatest need.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

I think the past 3 season historically point in fact contradict your conclusions. We have an experienced starting QB as backup on the roster, took a pay cut restructured deal saving a dead cap hit, like it or not, we all know your take. And now we also have a 3rd string QB on a rookie contract that will be that number 3 QB on game that will not count against the 53 man roster.

Loomis keeps proving over and over he’s just not up for the job …🤦

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Precisely.

Ever.

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Obviously, it’s a multifaceted problem. One of the factors is not just if you have a top ten (or 15 etc) pick. It’s if you have a high enough pick to nab a “capable” QB and your team/organization is good enough to help them succeed. Payton never drafted a QB but he never needed to until Brees retired. Pittsburgh went a long time with Roth. If Payton would have stayed the Saints coach he likely would have done something to grab a QB early (like in place of Penning) to fill the void.

Mahomes is an example from the player’s side of going to the right team. Now he’s a great talent who likely would be a successful QB most anywhere, but I don’t think he would have accomplished what he has so far with Reid in KC had he gone to say Houston.

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread
 

Re: Official 2023 OFFSEASON Thread