Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

There are five players I really don't trust to draft in the first round...

Dion Jordan and most any Oregon player for that matter...

Jarvis Jones, who I consider a bigger risk than Ogletree...

Johnathan Hankins who's from Ohio State, don't want Ohio State

Barkvicious Mingo just reminds me of Reynaldo Turnbull...

Tennessee Wide Receiver To Be Named - Never Draft a WR in the first round from UT...

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

2013 Saint's Draft Mock (JeanPierre)

[Updated 2013/04/06]

R1(15) LB Alec Ogletree, Georgia

R2 Forfeit

R3(75) OL Barrett Jones, Bama

R4(109) LB Chase Thomas, Stanford

R5(144) NT T.J. Barnes, Georgia Tech

R6(183) QB Ryan Griffin, Tulane

:bng:

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

J.P.- Mingo reminds me of Pat Swilling. Both are a little thin, but both are probably faster than 90% of the team. Speed kills, and the Saints defense surely needs some. And be careful discounting all players from any college. I'm pretty sure Eddie George went to Ohio State. Oh-and I recently read one of your blogs where you dissed the Ryans. Buddy Ryan coached the 85 Bears defense. I'm optimistic!

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

With the talent they had - I could've coached the '85 Bears Defense...

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Trade back to gain a 2nd to pick up Barrett Jones and then pick Faulk with the 3rd or 4th (or even 5th) - there you'll have the future center and LT starting from 2014.

Until then you make due with Brown as the LT and DLP as the RFA tendered center before he enters the free agency next offseason, and continue developing Marcel Jones behind Strief to be the starting RT.

Come 2014, the O-line will look like this: LT-Faulk; LG-Grubbs; C-B.Jones; RG-Evans; and RT-M.Jones.

The good thing about Barrett Jones is that he is more than capable of playing any of the interior positions - and subbing for the outer ones as well - and potentially taking over for either Grubbs or Evans if the need arises. That interior is the key behind the success the Saints have had with Brees, so I think B. Jones would be a very nice pick up for that continued success.

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

And we have a lot of potential on defense that we just don't know enough about yet. It may not hurt to roll with what we have, draft a difference maker if one falls to us, and refocus next year on exactly what we have in Galette, Wilson, Jordan, Hicks, Bunkley, Hawthorne, Robinson etc. Then attack the 2014 draft with a better understanding of our weaknesses and address them accordingly.

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Exactly, it'll be very difficult to know where the main needs on the defensive side lie at the moment before the staff (i.e. Ryan) has even had a chance to evaluate the players already on the roster wearing pads and lining up in his defensive base formation. So, I would agree with you on getting a defensive difference maker if one would happen to fall to the Saints. And someone like Jarvis Jones would certainly look even more intriguing if the Saints should find a trading partner to move down on the 1st round and Jones were to drop down on the draft day. But other than that, guys like Barrett Jones and Chris Faulk would be really nice additions to the offensive side.

They do probably need to pick up a rookie NT and a LB or a DE for depth and development, but those moves can be done in later rounds as well, since those guys wouldn't be expected to be day-1 starters.

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Since when does it hurt to stock the cupboard!!!!

Yes we have some items in house that are good, but we have a chance to be good, if not great right out the blocks after this draft if it is played correctly.... We know what the weaknesses are.

We don't have enough draft picks so dropping down is essential.... I can't see them playing this draft straight up..

- We don't have a space eater...... NT but he can be had in the third or even later....
- we have 2 SS in the secondary
- We need one more tall man up corner ( Corey White will win the slot job )

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Agreed...It never hurts to stock the cupboard. No one suggested otherwise.

With the switch to a 3-4, we DON'T know exactly what the weaknesses are. We played a 4-3 last year with a DC that insisted on playing square pegs in round holes.

Rob Ryans 3-4 doesn't require the prototypical "space eater" at NT. Thats been discussed ad nauseum. We do need depth however and that can be obtained with june 1st cuts or street free-agents.

We have only 1 true SS on the roster. Malcolm Jenkins would make a horrible SS. He may be the worst tackling safety we've had since Tebucky Jones. To consider him a SS is as ridiculous as considering Darren Sproles a power back.

CB's are typically 6-0 and under. Most of the greatest CB's of all time are around 5-10 or 5-11. Its a myth that you need tall CB's to compete today. Most 5-11 CB's have a freaking vertical nearly 1/2 foot higher than most of these tall WR/TE's playing today.

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

I disagree.... We know our weaknesses. 1 season under Spags didn't ruin this defense.... It was well on its way before that.... the zone scheme just helped.

No it doesn't require a NT, but it helps..... if bunkley transitions well so be it, but if he doesn't I am in a better position to move him if I have someone good to great already ready on the roster.

Again I disagree. And your man crush on Roman Harper dispite his many whiffs on tackles and ankle grabs versus wrapping and tackling won't change my mind to that we have to safeties in the secondary that are almost exactly alike. You rout for who you rout for, but you can't sit there and tell me that Harper performed any better than any member of the secondary. The occasional blitz sack does not make up for the number of times he can get beat during any contest. Harper and Jenkins are damn near the same type of player. Jenkins is a little bit better against the pass, as Harper is a little bit better against the run, both are more suited to be strong safeties than free safeties. So get yourslf a real deep ball FS and decide between the 2 who plays the strong.... IMO Jenkins isn't making as much as Harper is, so guess who's more opt to play that role.....


This time I am not disagreeing with you, because you are right, but let's go back to the beginning of the offseason..... What type of CB..... has your team targeted!!!!.... It seems like your team has jumped on the myth boat, why are you still sitting on the dock!!!!

- Derek Cox 6'0 man up corner
- Keenan Lewis 6'0 man up corner
- Tracy Porter ( needed to generate interest don't think saints were really interested)
-Nnamdi Asomugha 6'2 man up corner

Looks like Rob and Mikey like the Seattle version of the 3-4 a tad bit better than the others you know the one with Brandon Browner 6'4..... Richard Sherman..... 6'3

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

So you list two 6'0 CB's to counter my statement that CB's are typically 6'0 and under? :shock:

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

No, I didn't try to counter your argument. In fact, I believe I said that you were right. But I did mention a point that you have yet to counter which is that the Saints have only targeted the six foot or better CB this offseason.... :roll: Which is to say that they seem to be going the way of the taller CB.... And so I think they need one more 6'0ft or better Man up
corner

- They bought a 6,0ft man up corner (tried to buy 2)
- They have 6'0ft man up corner on staff (I think he wins the slot job)
- Only natural that they may draft a 6'0ft man up corner ( David Amerson??)

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

I never said that, anywhere. Are you referring to someone else?

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

This is what happens when you skim through and don't read the statements fully. :grin: You and I have been going back and forth for the past seven statements..... Who else would my words be directed to but you?

For Danno...... cliffnotes of the conversation :cool:

Danno- Maybe this should be an offensive draft and fill the defensive problems when we have a better understanding of our weaknesses

Alley- We already know our weaknesses NT, 2 alike SS, need another 6'0ft man up corner

Danno - Rob Ryans defense doesn't require a space eating NT, 6'0ft corners being better is a myth

Alley - If Bunkley works at NT good but if not lets draft NT just in case, Don't disagree with your theory on CB's but your team seems to be targeting tall man up corners in free agency....

Danno - so you list two 6'0ft corners to counter my statement

Alley- No Im saying your statement is correct, but the team seems to be targeting a players that contradict your statement. To this you had no counterpoint......

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

You have problems comprehending simple english. Try again. Here, I'll lay it out for you exactly as I typed it...

Danno: CB's are typically 6-0 and under. Most of the greatest CB's of all time are around 5-10 or 5-11. Its a myth that you need tall CB's to compete today. Most 5-11 CB's have a freaking vertical nearly 1/2 foot higher than most of these tall WR/TE's playing today.

Now how in the world did you get "6'0ft corners being better is a myth"? out of my statement?

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Do you know what a cliffnote is? It means I am giving you a broken down version of your wordy thought. You said tomatoes, I said To - ma - toes.... We still said the exact same thing. You still haven't addressed my point about the team targeting taller corners!!!! your just shucking and jiving around it knitpickng typing and sentence structure and word play......

Here's how I got that out of what you said. Two statements " CB's are typically 6-0 and under.>>>>>>> Most of the great CB's are 5-10 or 5-11 <<<< if your not saying that smaller CBs are better why is this statement even needed!!!! IT'S A MYTH THAT YOU NEED TALL CB'S TO COMPETE TODAY

in other words 6'0 ft corners being better than smaller corners is a myth!!!!

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Wow, just wow. I give up. You are incapable of comprehending simple english.

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

:duel:

:deadhorse:

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

So, let me see if I have this straight...the team is targeting a series of exactly precisely 6'0" corners this off season, in order to foster arguments on message boards about corners "typically" being either 6'0" or less, or else being 6'0" and above....wow, I think I see it now -- Loomis and Payton are crazy like a fox -- by ONLY picking 6'0" corners, they are keeping everyone guessing, as to whether their strategy is going to be going after tall corners above 6'0", or short corners below 6'0"....and yet, HAHA, the Saints are targeting ONLY EXACTLY 6'0" corners, keeping EVERYONE guessing, so that the fans and also other teams don't know which philosophy they are using....wow, I think I really understand this argument now.

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

I explained how I got what I got out of your statements and this is what I get back..... seriously.

Ok, you tell me what I should have comprehended from your statement. You garner a great deal of respect here, but don't expect me to cowher to you because your post count is high, or because you sling insults to avoid explanations...... I'll keep my feelings out of the post, I expect you being the senior poster to do the same.

- What should I have comprehended from your statements?

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

You silly, LOL!!!!!

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

OK,

I said CB's are typically 6-0 and under. True

Most of the greatest CB's of all time are around 5-10 or 5-11. True

Its a myth that you need tall CB's to compete today. True

Most 5-11 CB's have a freaking vertical nearly 1/2 foot higher than most of these tall WR/TE's playing today. True

Nowhere did I say that 6'0 CB's being better is a myth. I said you don't need tall (over 6'0) CB's to compete, then stated that most of the best CB's of all time ever are under 6'0, to illustrate that you don't have to be a tall CB (over 6'0) to compete.

This is taking way too much effort to relay what should be easy to understand. This is my final attempt at helping you understand. I'm sure the rest of the board is growing tired of this silly back and forth too. I hope you understand.

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

If there's a 6' 2" prospect and a 5' 11" prospect and both are capable cornerbacks, I'm getting the size...

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

I do think Danno is on point with the things he stated pertaining to CBs, but I personally would always choose the taller CB if otherwise the CBs in question were about the same in other areas.

More than size, it comes down to body management and how CBs with smaller statures can maneuver themselves in relation to the receiver - when talking about the really tall WRs in the league. Height doesn't make CBs better by its virtue alone, but it can certainly help a lot when one has to go against a big physical receiver in a man coverage scheme.

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

the wr are getting taller so the cb must do the same. in many ways the cb are just starting to catch up

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Exactly, but like Danno said, having tall CBs isn't necessary to compete - even though having them will probably make it easier to compete.

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

True. If you gave me a choice between a 5-11 Deion Sanders, and a 6'4 Deion Sanders, obviously you go with the taller one. No one disagrees with that.

But as I pointed out, you don't have to be over 6'0 to play CB wellin this league. If a 6'0 CB has an 6" vertical advantage over a 6'4 WR, you don't have a problem.

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Word semantics.... I apologize you said to compete, and not better than. I could have easily argued that better is what you meant, but it won't advance us.

This is my attempt at humor, has nothing to do with the convo>>>> I should or could have never thought that better is what you meant based on you making the under 6'0ft corner seem like Superman was guarding the defensive backfield:roll: .... I mean you said everything except shorter CB's could leap tall buildings in a single bound. <<<< But, I digress

To your not needing 6'0ft corners to compete comment I gave you kudos by saying that I agreed..... Then I mentioned that even thought your statement is true, the saints have been committed to going opposite of your statement in their free agency signs and visits.... To which there has still been no response....

If the Saints are in fact targeting taller man up corners, shouldn't I want them to follow with what the plan is? That is the whole reason I said a tall man up corner.

This is taking way too much effort to relay what should be easy to understand. This is my final attempt at helping you understand. This is an unnecessary statement.... borderline insulting. I have a very good understanding of the english language as I am sure you do too. If I wanted to trade insults I would be on the page where that was more of the norm. Again answer and move on.....

I'm sure the rest of the board is growing tired of this silly back and forth too. I can't speak for everyone in the room but IMHO fights between family members is what builds the best families.... doubt they would think otherwise!!!!!

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

OK, One last time I promise.

I said you don't need tall CB's to compete. 6'0 isn't a tall CB. I stated that CB's are typically 6'0 and under. What is it about that statement that you don't understand? :bang:

You then pointed out that we looked at two 6'0 CB's. How is looking at 6'0 CB's "going opposite" of my statement that CB's are typically 6'0 and under?

This is now my 3rd reponse to your comments that you claim I haven't responded to.

Hell, maybe its me. Can someone else explain to me where the disconnect is coming from? I am simply unable to make it any more clear than I already have, in several different posts.

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

No - We do not know our 2013 strengths and weaknesses on defense yet, and Ryan is not going to know that answer until he puts the players through their paces. It's not always the tools in the box but how you use them.

If you refute that statement then you also believe that it has nothing to do with utilization in Ingram's case... He is just not that good.

Furthermore if its the players that are either good or bad solely based on that merit, and neither utilization nor Spags influenced how bad our defense was in 2012..... then... having Payton back will change nothing in 2013.

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Wait a minute, I thought we wanted some players that could tackle....

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Likewise....

:deadhorse:

First original thought you have had since the beginning of the conversation. Now to you a 6ft cornerback may not be a tall cornerback. But to me a 6'0ft CB is taller than any starting Saints CB that we have had in the past 3 to 4 seasons so you'll forgive me if I see a distinct difference between Jabari Greer and Keenan Lewis, and you don't!!!!

When the cornerbacks in question Asomugha ( 6'2) Cox (6'1) go above what you deem as not tall, or does tall start at 6'3 now for the sake of you winning the argument!!!!

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

I hate to cut in on you two lovebirds, but AC, you originally posted Cox as being 6'0, which probably lead to Danno's argument that you only listed one CB (Asomugha) who was above 6'0 tall.

Not that it probably makes any difference, but I thought I'd bring that to your attention.

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Ah...

...I'm on-call at the office and I'm reading the proverbial 'bigger is better' debate this late night...

...we should bring on Ron Jeremy and a panel of "experts" to discuss the benefits of how a bigger "cornerback" would bring more pleasure to Saints Fans!!!

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Haha! That would be rg hands down. He's the biggest "cornerback"

Johnson: [notices Dr. Evil's spaceship on radar] Colonel, you better take a look at this radar.
Colonel: What is it, son?
Johnson: I don't know, sir, but it looks like a giant--
[cut to the sky in two jets]
Jet Pilot: Dick!
Dick: Yeah?
Pilot: Take a look outta starboard.
Dick: Oh, my God! It looks like a huge--
[cut to a forest with 2 birdwatchers]
Bird-Watching Woman: Pecker!
Bird-Watching Man: [raises his binoculars] Oh, where?
Bird-Watching Woman: Wait! that's not a woodpecker. It looks like someone's--
[cut to a boot camp]
Army Sergeant: PRIVATES! We have reports of an unidentified flying object! It is a long, smooth shaft, complete with--
[cut to a baseball game]
Umpire: 2 balls! [looks up from game] What is that? That looks just like an enormous--
[cut to a Chinese school]
Teacher: Wang! Pay attention!
Wang: I was distracted by that enormous flying--
[cut to a concert with Willie Nelson and another guitarist]
Musician: Willie.
Willie: Yeah?
Musician: What's that?
Willie: [looks up] Well, it looks like a giant--
[cut back to headquarters]
Colonel: Johnson!

I've ever heard of!

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Sorry Fin apologies in the heat of the argument.... Here is Cox in a nutshell!!

Derek Cox # DB. San Diego Chargers | Official Team Site. Height: 6-1 Weight: 195 Age: 26 Born: 9/22/1986 ...

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Stealing JeanPierre`s trade scenario

Saints trade rights to RB Chris Ivory and pick 1.15 (15)

for

Bengals' picks 2.5(37), 2.21(53), and 3.15(47)

2013 Saint's Draft Mock (Jeanpierre)



2.05 (37) OT Barrett Jones/Menelick Watson/DJ Fluker

R2 Forfeit

2.21 (53)DT Margus Hunt/Jonathon Hankins

3.13 (75)CB Leon McFadden/Robert Alford

3.22 (86)OT Chris Faulk/Terron Armstead

4.12 (109)NT Montari Hughes/Kwame Geathers

5.11 (144)ILB Nico Johnson/AJ Kleinn/Bruce taylor

6.15 (183) BPA

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

Oklahoma T Lane Johnson is visiting the Saints on Tuesday.

The team has a huge void at left tackle, but without a second-round pick it could be tough to move up and secure a top three tackle. A more viable solution could be to trade in the opposite direction and possibly target Terron Armstead or Dallas Thomas.

Source: Sean Jensen on Twitter

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

How tall is this Jensen guy?

:deadhorse:

Re: 2013 NFL Draft - Saints Big Board
 

LOL!

OMG I hope he's not 6'0. There will be some who question if thats tall, short, tall and short, or typical.:p