Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!

Euphoria · 04-22-2008, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

An impact DT would be great; but it's more prudent to stay and and keep the early Round 2 pick...

This draft is not as bad as some are saying; the confusion is an argument could be made for several players to be No. 1 coupled with the fact that Parcells has that No. 1 pick...

There are plenty of great players to be had in the midround picks; it's Not your No. 1 pick that gets you to the Big Game, it's those R2-R4 guys...

Just look at the Giants draft last year; they added guys to all parts of their team form all rounds in the draft...

More is better; Saints Scouting just has to step up and add guys they can contribute immedialtely and not be like the Saints of the past who develop players who go on to other teams...

More is not better. More picks don't equate into a championship team. Winning makes you a championship team. In order to do that you get impact players who can impact games. We have enough of average, or the R2-R4 players on this team, its time we find some players to make an impact. You don't settle for a bunch of average players... you need some but you need those winner/impact guys along with them. We are lacking in the impact department on D.

R2-R4 will get you 8-8 or 7-9.

Tobias-Reiper · 04-22-2008, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

More is not better. More picks don't equate into a championship team. Winning makes you a championship team. In order to do that you get impact players who can impact games. We have enough of average, or the R2-R4 players on this team, its time we find some players to make an impact. You don't settle for a bunch of average players... you need some but you need those winner/impact guys along with them. We are lacking in the impact department on D.

R2-R4 will get you 8-8 or 7-9.

…dude, you really have lost it. I’m not against giving up a 2nd if it lands Dorsey or Ellis, but to say that R2-R4 yields you 7-9 8-8, that is just wrong.
You are also assuming that Dorsey is going to face undersized O-linemen with poor technique every Sunday in the NFL.

I’d be ok if the Saints stood pat at #10 and picked Rivers then picked Laws/Connor/Mayo at #40.

Euphoria · 04-22-2008, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

…dude, you really have lost it. I’m not against giving up a 2nd if it lands Dorsey or Ellis, but to say that R2-R4 yields you 7-9 8-8, that is just wrong.
You are also assuming that Dorsey is going to face undersized O-linemen with poor technique every Sunday in the NFL.

I’d be ok if the Saints stood pat at #10 and picked Rivers then picked Laws/Connor/Mayo at #40.

average players... average team will get you an average record. Nothing wrong about that statement. I can't see how poor players on a poor team is going to get you 16-0?

Also I am ok with hanging back at 10 but I don't see us getting a player who is going impact our d as much as Dorsey will. Thats why I say its actually better to move up and snag Dorsey addressing our our DL.

FrenzyFan · 04-22-2008, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

average players... average team will get you an average record. Nothing wrong about that statement. I can't see how poor players on a poor team is going to get you 16-0?

Also I am ok with hanging back at 10 but I don't see us getting a player who is going impact our d as much as Dorsey will. Thats why I say its actually better to move up and snag Dorsey addressing our our DL.

The reason you keep catching flack is that you equate R2-R4 players with being guaranteed average, non-impact players. History clearly disproves that statement, even with picks in rounds after 2-4. There are 6th and 7th round picks playing in the league right now who are outplaying their 1st round (even 1st pick overall) counterparts. A round 2 pick has a LOT of value, to the right team/scouting department/draft evaluator. I'm not talking about some chart that seeks to attach a number to a draft pick. I'm talking about a player.

You feel (very strongly) that Dorsey is a can't-miss player so it's worth giving up our second round pick for. Other people feel that when our round 2 pick comes up, there will still be impact players on the board. Our history of drafts with this coaching staff has been a 50/50 line. One year, we couldn't miss with our draft picks - the next they all seem to be struggling (and that's being kind in some cases). If this is the year where we are "on", and considering the many needs our defense has, it may be better to take two impact players than just Dorsey.

For my part, I'll be a little disappointed if we trade up - but at the same time I'll be excited to see what Dorsey can do. He was great in college, but I have to agree when it was pointed out that players in the NFL (and particularly NFL linemen) are not undersized, like they are in college. I'd be hopeful, but only time would tell if Dorsey can immediately handle the transition to an NFL level.

If we trade up and get Ellis, would you still consider it a bargain? After all, your whole argument says that we need DTs to provide pass rush and thereby give the illusion that our secondary is better than it is.

04-22-2008, 01:02 PM	#3
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper …dude, you really have lost it. I’m not against giving up a 2nd if it lands Dorsey or Ellis, but to say that R2-R4 yields you 7-9 8-8, that is just wrong. You are also assuming that Dorsey is going to face undersized O-linemen with poor technique every Sunday in the NFL. I’d be ok if the Saints stood pat at #10 and picked Rivers then picked Laws/Connor/Mayo at #40. average players... average team will get you an average record. Nothing wrong about that statement. I can't see how poor players on a poor team is going to get you 16-0? Also I am ok with hanging back at 10 but I don't see us getting a player who is going impact our d as much as Dorsey will. Thats why I say its actually better to move up and snag Dorsey addressing our our DL.
	Last edited by Euphoria; 04-22-2008 at 01:06 PM..

04-22-2008, 01:40 PM	#4
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by Euphoria average players... average team will get you an average record. Nothing wrong about that statement. I can't see how poor players on a poor team is going to get you 16-0? Also I am ok with hanging back at 10 but I don't see us getting a player who is going impact our d as much as Dorsey will. Thats why I say its actually better to move up and snag Dorsey addressing our our DL. The reason you keep catching flack is that you equate R2-R4 players with being guaranteed average, non-impact players. History clearly disproves that statement, even with picks in rounds after 2-4. There are 6th and 7th round picks playing in the league right now who are outplaying their 1st round (even 1st pick overall) counterparts. A round 2 pick has a LOT of value, to the right team/scouting department/draft evaluator. I'm not talking about some chart that seeks to attach a number to a draft pick. I'm talking about a player. You feel (very strongly) that Dorsey is a can't-miss player so it's worth giving up our second round pick for. Other people feel that when our round 2 pick comes up, there will still be impact players on the board. Our history of drafts with this coaching staff has been a 50/50 line. One year, we couldn't miss with our draft picks - the next they all seem to be struggling (and that's being kind in some cases). If this is the year where we are "on", and considering the many needs our defense has, it may be better to take two impact players than just Dorsey. For my part, I'll be a little disappointed if we trade up - but at the same time I'll be excited to see what Dorsey can do. He was great in college, but I have to agree when it was pointed out that players in the NFL (and particularly NFL linemen) are not undersized, like they are in college. I'd be hopeful, but only time would tell if Dorsey can immediately handle the transition to an NFL level. If we trade up and get Ellis, would you still consider it a bargain? After all, your whole argument says that we need DTs to provide pass rush and thereby give the illusion that our secondary is better than it is.
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	\"The AB brand of TP will hurt your O-ring.\" - BlackandBlue http://www.darrylbercegeay.com/wsmith1.jpg

04-22-2008, 10:40 AM	#1
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by jeanpierre An impact DT would be great; but it's more prudent to stay and and keep the early Round 2 pick... This draft is not as bad as some are saying; the confusion is an argument could be made for several players to be No. 1 coupled with the fact that Parcells has that No. 1 pick... There are plenty of great players to be had in the midround picks; it's Not your No. 1 pick that gets you to the Big Game, it's those R2-R4 guys... Just look at the Giants draft last year; they added guys to all parts of their team form all rounds in the draft... More is better; Saints Scouting just has to step up and add guys they can contribute immedialtely and not be like the Saints of the past who develop players who go on to other teams... More is not better. More picks don't equate into a championship team. Winning makes you a championship team. In order to do that you get impact players who can impact games. We have enough of average, or the R2-R4 players on this team, its time we find some players to make an impact. You don't settle for a bunch of average players... you need some but you need those winner/impact guys along with them. We are lacking in the impact department on D. R2-R4 will get you 8-8 or 7-9.

04-22-2008, 12:09 PM	#2
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by Euphoria More is not better. More picks don't equate into a championship team. Winning makes you a championship team. In order to do that you get impact players who can impact games. We have enough of average, or the R2-R4 players on this team, its time we find some players to make an impact. You don't settle for a bunch of average players... you need some but you need those winner/impact guys along with them. We are lacking in the impact department on D. R2-R4 will get you 8-8 or 7-9. …dude, you really have lost it. I’m not against giving up a 2nd if it lands Dorsey or Ellis, but to say that R2-R4 yields you 7-9 8-8, that is just wrong. You are also assuming that Dorsey is going to face undersized O-linemen with poor technique every Sunday in the NFL. I’d be ok if the Saints stood pat at #10 and picked Rivers then picked Laws/Connor/Mayo at #40.