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TheOak 02-24-2014 09:25 AM

2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by exile (Post 579241)
I have to disagree with you a bit here Oak. QBs times used to be moot but with today's hybrid QBs. It's a big deal.



Kindly re-read what I said "40 times for QBs are moot". Quickness is most important.



E.g. 20 yard shuttle. 3 cone drill.. Explosiveness and agility. It is more important that a QB can duck, dive, dodge a wrench than cover 40 yards.



Manziel was 4th in the 40 but #1 in the 20 yard shuttle.



QBs rarely cover 40 yards in a play.


http://media.joe.ie/wp-content/uploa...601-xlarge.jpg

exile 02-24-2014 09:32 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 579245)
Kindly re-read what I said "40 times for QBs are moot". Quickness is most important.

I read it correctly. But I still have nightmares of Newton taking a corner and running down the field like a gazelle being chased by *****cats. So yeah, I still think the 40 is pretty important to a certain class of QBs. Quickness is also important, I get that.

TheOak 02-24-2014 09:35 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by exile (Post 579247)
I read it correctly. But I still have nightmares of Newton taking a corner and running down the field like a gazelle being chased by *****cats. So yeah, I still think the 40 is pretty important to a certain class of QBs. Quickness is also important, I get that.


99% of QBs only get to open field because of quickness. Newton is a different dynamic because he can break arm tackles to get free. Wilson and Kaepernick get to open field through quickness.

K Major 02-24-2014 10:15 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 579188)
Kind of disappointed by D'Anthony Thomas in the 40... Dri Archer definitely stole the show. Of course speed isn't everything but Archer and Jeff Janis made themselves a little extra money this weekend.


Agreed but I will take a page from Mike Mayock in that a lot of teams fall in love with the #'s but the better organizations that draft well include all factors and don't go over board with measurables. Just factor in college production and the tape (I would apply this to Jarvis Landry).

saintsfan1976 02-24-2014 10:40 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
I'll tell ya where speed is crucial today - LINEBACKER

I hope we draft a speedy, playmaking linebacker this year.

Like Vaccaro, but heavier.

jeanpierre 02-24-2014 12:34 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Day 2 Combine Report: Hail to the underrated | Audibles - SI.com

Janis told me that he models himself after Green Bay’s Jordy Nelson, and I can see the comparison.

hagan714 02-24-2014 06:45 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 579291)
Day 2 Combine Report: Hail to the underrated | Audibles - SI.com

Janis told me that he models himself after Green Bay’s Jordy Nelson, and I can see the comparison.

but would you spend a 3rd because i think he will be off the board in the fourth, nis size and speed? some one is going to take him early

i am toying with the idea

besides he can do what Meachem and Henderson did. streak deep for the first year

Danno 02-24-2014 06:58 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 (Post 579259)
I'll tell ya where speed is crucial today - LINEBACKER

I hope we draft a speedy, playmaking linebacker this year.

Like Vaccaro, but heavier.

Kinda like what we thought we'd get in Martez Wilson?

I want one too.

Also, Vaccaro isn't really a "speedy" safety. His speed is probably average for a safety. He timed about the same as Harper and Jenkins did.

hagan714 02-24-2014 07:16 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
players i will be watching for later rounds

Donte Johnson NC State FS/CB 6020 200 4.48?
Brandon Dixon NW Missouri St CB/FS 5111 202 4.35?
Johnathan Downey Western Kentucky 6022 FS/SS 198 4.42 ?

jeanpierre 02-24-2014 07:25 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 579362)
Kinda like what we thought we'd get in Martez Wilson?

I want one too.

Also, Vaccaro isn't really a "speedy" safety. His speed is probably average for a safety. He timed about the same as Harper and Jenkins did.

Yeah, but I'll tell you...

Vaccaro plays faster and smoother than those two ever played for us...

But, it's still early, at least two more years to fairly compare...

jeanpierre 02-24-2014 07:26 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 579364)
players i will be watching for later rounds

Donte Johnson NC State FS/CB 6020 200 4.48?
Brandon Dixon NW Missouri St CB/FS 5111 202 4.35?
Johnathan Downey Western Kentucky 6022 FS/SS 198 4.42 ?

Dontae Johnson compares to Keenan Lewis, so that's a good candidate for the Black and Gold...

hagan714 02-25-2014 06:20 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 579366)
Dontae Johnson compares to Keenan Lewis, so that's a good candidate for the Black and Gold...

I have watched a couple of games of NC state he has always made an impression. I came away thinking he would make a nice addition to the saints 3 safety sets. FS maybe the best way to see the kid with the ability to play in the nickle and dime packages. interesting prospect with IMO a solid upside.

now the other two i saw a bit of

Brandon Dixon NW Missouri St CB/FS 5111 202 4.35?
tough and aggressive

Jonathan Dowling Western Kentucky 6022 FS/SS 198 4.42
Western Kentucky's Jonathan Dowling says he will enter draft - NFL.com




solid division II players in their own right. it will be interesting to see these two measure out. these two are on my watch list for 6/7 round steals in the draft

quality players at a cheap price is always a good thing ;)

we need the next Colston type of pick in a bad way.

lee909 02-25-2014 06:25 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Are there any TE that could take Jimmys spot if a deal cant be reached or he gets the non franchise tag and is picked up.

TheOak 02-25-2014 06:50 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 579424)
Are there any TE that could take Jimmys spot if a deal cant be reached or he gets the non franchise tag and is picked up.

Watson was solid and Hill is behind him. Do we need another TE?

I am leaning to the opinion that we have put way too much emphasis on the TE position, and that is the main reason for our predictability.

lee909 02-25-2014 07:10 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
My only concern with Watson is the concussion issue. I seem to remember him having a few over the years (I could well be wrong). I agree we could make do but I have not paid much attet to TE in college so just wondering if any are comung out that could be worth watching.

hagan714 02-25-2014 07:12 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 579424)
Are there any TE that could take Jimmys spot if a deal cant be reached or he gets the non franchise tag and is picked up.

I think they are under WR now in the draft.

hagan714 02-25-2014 07:22 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 579428)
My only concern with Watson is the concussion issue. I seem to remember him having a few over the years (I could well be wrong). I agree we could make do but I have not paid much attet to TE in college so just wondering if any are comung out that could be worth watching.

Blocking tE that can catch
Troy Niklas, TE, Notre Dame
C.J. Fiedorowicz, TE, Iowa


hback type
Joe Don Duncan, TE, Dixie State

exile 02-25-2014 07:24 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 579424)
Are there any TE that could take Jimmys spot if a deal cant be reached or he gets the non franchise tag and is picked up.


No. That's why he will get paid.

exile 02-25-2014 09:51 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Kind of makes you want a new CB.


TheOak 02-25-2014 10:23 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 579428)
My only concern with Watson is the concussion issue. I seem to remember him having a few over the years (I could well be wrong). I agree we could make do but I have not paid much attet to TE in college so just wondering if any are comung out that could be worth watching.

3 in 2011 and 1 in 2013.

hagan714 02-25-2014 02:20 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
impressed by

Donte Johnson NC State FS/CB 6020 200 4.45
Dontae Johnson vs Clemson (2013) | Draft Breakdown

Phillip Gains Rice CB 6002 193 4.38



Brandon Dixon NW Missouri St CB/FS 5111 202 4.40

saintsfan1976 02-25-2014 04:47 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 579362)
Kinda like what we thought we'd get in Martez Wilson?

I want one too.

Also, Vaccaro isn't really a "speedy" safety. His speed is probably average for a safety. He timed about the same as Harper and Jenkins did.


In what drills? 40yd dash?? he sure plays more quickly than either of those seem to be. Maybe his fast-twitch BRAIN is the key...

Danno 02-25-2014 05:09 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 (Post 579512)
In what drills? 40yd dash?? he sure plays more quickly than either of those seem to be. Maybe his fast-twitch BRAIN is the key...

Absolutely.

No wasted steps, no hesitiation...

Both make a 0.1 second difference in 40 yard dash times totally irrelevant.

That why a Ray Lewis looked blazing fast in his youth but only ran a 4.79/4.81 at the combine.

hagan714 02-25-2014 11:34 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
combine is a beauty show thats all. game tapes if you can find them are the best eval.

saintsfan1976 02-26-2014 06:28 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Totally agree on combine being a pageant.

But it is fun to see just how athletic this generation of kids can be. The fact the Clowney CAN move that fast is incredible. Too bad he'll rarely use it

hagan714 02-26-2014 07:03 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Round 1
Jason Verrett CB TCU 5095 176

Round 2
Jack Mewhort ROT/OG/LS Ohio St. 6060 306

Round 3
Weston Richburg OC Colorado St 6-3 298

This why i like it from round 3 on so many choices now after you get some measurable data and watch some drills on players you read about have watched but wonder about.

Josh Mauro, DE/DT Stanford 6054 276 4.98
Donte Johnson NC State FS/CB 6020 200 4.45
Howard Jones OLB/ILB Shepard 6022 229 4.54
Phillip Gains Rice CB 6002 193 4.38

6/7 UNDFA

Jerick McKinnon RB/WR/QB/DB/KR Georgia Southern 5090 209 4.41
Brandon Dixon NW Missouri St CB/FS 5112 204 4.41

right now if i could get more picks i would draft them all

that is the short list right now

WR is crazy as well RB so many good players tested better than thought.

still toying with OL and TE as well as DL and LB because i forgot to record it.

jeanpierre 02-27-2014 07:03 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 579217)
Wilson ran a 4.55 and is shorter than Manziell. These are QBs brother.

40 yard times for QBs are moot, quickness is more relevant than speed.


Right.

But Wilson was drafted in the third round...

There talking about these guys in the first round...

Look, I hope these teams burn a 1R pick on a short QB...

I just don't want MY team burning a first rounder on a QB unless he's a proto-type passer, 6-3 or better, cannon for an arm and one of Dan Marino's Love Ilk...

And, if'n he's under that, he better smoke jokes that can't run a 4.4 with 'em if he's gonna take our first round pick in a draft...

jeanpierre 02-27-2014 07:41 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Saints Draft Candidates (per Round)

Round 1 (27) Kyle Van Noy, OLB, BYU, Height; 6’ 3”; Weight: 244lbs.
Round 1 (27) Justin Gilbert, CB , Oklahoma State; Height: 6' 0"; Weight: 200lbs.
Round 1 (27) Ha'Sean Clinton-Dix, FS, Alabama; Height: 6’ 1”; Weight 208lbs.
Round 1 (27) Taylor Lewan, OT, Michigan; Height: 6’ 7¼”; Weight 314lbs.
Round 1 (27) Kelvin Benjamin, WR, Florida St; Height: 6’ 5”; Weight 235lbs.

Round 2 (58) Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt; Height: 6' 2⅝"; Weight: 212lbs.
Round 2 (58) Jeremiah Attaochu, OLB, Georgia Tech; Height: 6’ 3”; Weight: 252lbs.
Round 2 (58) Troy Niklas, TE, Notre Dame; Height: 6’ 6⅝”; Weight: 270lbs.
Round 2 (58) Gabe Jackson, OL, Mississippi St; Height: 6’ 4”; Weight: 339lbs.
Round 2 (58) Kyle Fuller, CB, Virginia Tech; Height: 6' 0"; Weight: 190 lbs.
Round 2 (58) Jimmie Ward, S, Northern Illinois; Height: 5' 11"; Weight: 193 lbs.
Round 2 (58) Ja'Waun James, OT, Tennessee; Height: 6’ 6”; Weight: 315lbs.

Round 3 (91) Pierre Desir, CB, Lindenwood; Height: 6’ 1”; Weight: 195lbs.
Round 3 (91) C. J. Fiedorowicz, TE, Iowa; Height: 6’ 5”; Weight: 265 lbs.
Round 3 (91) Marcus Martin, C, USC; Height: 6’ 3”; Weight: 310lbs.
Round 3 (91) Dakota Dozier, G, Furman; Height: 6’ 4”; Weight: 312lbs.
Round 3 (91) Charles Sims, RB, West Virginia; Height: 6’ 0”; Weight 214 lbs.
Round 3 (91) Shayne Skov, LB, Stanford; Height: 6’ 2”; Weight: 245lbs.

Round 4 (122) Brandon Thomas, G, Clemson; Height: 6’ 4”; Weight: 316lbs.
Round 4 (122) Brandon Coleman, WR, Rutgers; Height: 6’ 5”; Weight: 220lbs.
Round 4 (122) James White, RB, Wisconsin; Height: 5’ 09”; Weight: 206lbs.
Round 4 (122) Antone Exum, CB, Virginia Tech; Height: 5’ 10⅝”; Weight: 218 lbs.
Round 4 (122) Ross Cockrell, CB, Duke; Height: 6’ 0”; Weight: 185lbs.
Round 4 (122) Brent Urban, DE, Virginia; Height: 6’ 6”; Weight: 298lbs.

Round 5 (155) Taylor Hart, DE, Oregon; Height: 6’ 6”; Weight: 287lbs.
Round 5 (155) Russell Bodine, OL, North Carolina; Height: 6’ 3”; Weight: 310lbs.
Round 5 (155) Howard Jones, OLB, Shepherd; Height: 6’ 2”; Weight: 229lbs.
Round 5 (155) Jeff Janis, WR, Saginaw Valley; Height: 6’ 2”; Weight: 212lbs.
Round 5 (155) Ronald Powell, OLB, Florida: Height: 6’ 3”; Weight: 240lbs.
Round 5 (155) Walt Aikens, CB, Liberty; Height: 6’ 0”; Weight: 198 lbs.

Round 6 (186) Kapri Bibbs, RB, Colorado State; Height: 5’ 11”; Weight: 200lbs.
Round 6 (186) Zack Kerr, NT, Delaware; Height: 6’ 2”; Weight: 334lbs.
Round 6 (186) Kadeem Edwards, OL, Tennessee St; Height: 6’ 4”; Weight: 310lbs.
Round 6 (186) Lavelle Westbrooks, CB, Georgia Southern; Height: 5’ 11” 186 lbs.
Round 6 (186) Dontae Johnson, DB, NC State; Height: 6’ 2”; Weight: 199lbs.
Round 6 (186) Caleb Lavey, ILB, Oklahoma State; Height: 6’ 3”; Weight: 240lbs.

brees84 02-27-2014 07:46 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Last year Stills in 5th, this year Jeff Janis! I like that but someone will pick him in 4th round.

jeanpierre 02-27-2014 08:39 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brees84 (Post 579901)
Last year Stills in 5th, this year Jeff Janis! I like that but someone will pick him in 4th round.

Actually, I see Janis going as high as the third after a great combine...

jeanpierre 02-27-2014 08:41 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 579105)
2014 NFL Draft Prospect Meetings

Ricardo Allen, CB, Purdue (EW)
Carrington Byndom, CB, Texas (EW)
Bennett Jackson, CB, Notre Dame (EW)

New Orleans Saints:
Walt Aikens, DB, Liberty (SR)
Chris Davis, DB, Auburn (SR)
Ahmad Dixon, DB, Baylor (SR)
Keith McGill, DB, Utah (SR)
Dez Southward, DB, Wisconsin (SR)
Jimmie Ward, DB, Northern Illinois (SR)

Alden Darby, S, Arizona State (EW)
Brock Vereen, S, Minnesota (EW)

Jeremiah Attaochu, LB, Georgia Tech (SR%)
Devon Kennard, LB, USC (EW)

DaQuan Jones, DL, Penn State (SR)

Dakota Dozier, G, Furman (EW)
John Urschel, G, Penn State (EW)

Dillon Farrell, C, New Mexico (EW)
James Stone, C, Tennessee (EW)

Gabe Jackson, OL, Mississippi State (SR)
Tyler Larsen, OL, Utah State (SR)
Bryan Stork, OL, Florida State (SR)
Cyril Richardson, OL, Baylor (SR)
Billy Turner, OL, North Dakota State (SR)

C.J. Fiedorowicz, TE, Iowa (SR)
Jacob Pedersen, TE, Wisconsin (SR)

Shaquelle Evans, WR, UCLA (SR)
Ryan Grant, WR, Tulane (SR)
Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt (SR)

David Fales, QB, San Jose State (SR)
Zach Mettenberger, QB, LSU (COM)
Stephen Morris, QB, Miami (SR)

Lorenzo Taliaferro, RB, Coastal Carolina (SR)
James White, RB, Wisconsin (SR)

Anthony Fera, K , Texas (EW)

WalterFootball.com: 2014 NFL Draft Prospect Meetings

We typically don't select those we meet with, but...

SaintLeonard 02-27-2014 11:43 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Mock draft:
1st - Calvin Pryor, FS, Louisville
2nd - Davante Adams, WR, Fresno
3rd - Terrance Mitchell, CB, Oregon
4th - Jordan Tripp, OLB, Montana
5th - James Hurst, OT, North Carolina
6th - Michael Campanaro, WR, Wake Forest

hagan714 02-27-2014 11:52 PM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
i am going to make a prediction here that 1 QB Bridge water will be drafted in the top ten. in all likelihood the remaining 2 of the three top QB will be on the board when we pick. they just do not test out as well as the rest of the draft. media hype based on team needs. i think teams in need will be happy to wait till the second round to reach on a QB. cleveland at 26 may take Blake Bortles but would they?

manzel will probably be there at the top of round 2 along with Derek Carr who i think will be a better pro as well as Jimmy Garoppolo.

A.J. McCarron and Zach Mettenberger are third round talent? i just am not seeing it.

i think the draft class for QB is solid but :
first round? no.
second round? yes.
The green room maybe the saddest room yet again on draft day. each of the teams in the top have been burned in recent years by reaching on QBs in the first so the wounds are fresh. so they may not make the mistake twice.

Blake Bortles at 27 to sit and back up drew as he learns the system? now that would make for an interesting day here at B&G. do not worry i do think that will happen and i hope it does not because i have him as the 4th best QB in the draft tied with Carr. if it does i will be leading the charge ;) but the saints and indi both have aging QBs so if the BPA is a QB why not.

So i see a lot of the talent we think may fall to us or be within our reach in the first are going to be gone earlier than we think. now in the second is where it would help us out greatly. second round i see 3 maybe 4 QB being taken.

Saintaintso 02-28-2014 12:35 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
If manziel is available we need to take him ... Drew will age ... And having him learn from the best short QB ever would ensure the recent success of New Orleans football is here for the long haul ... The next 2 decades of championship contention sounds like a worthy investment

jeanpierre 02-28-2014 04:14 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Saintaintso (Post 579922)
If manziel is available we need to take him ... Drew will age ... And having him learn from the best short QB ever would ensure the recent success of New Orleans football is here for the long haul ... The next 2 decades of championship contention sounds like a worthy investment


Manziel?!? Way too much risk and we've got too many holes on the offensive line and the back half of the defense to waste a pick...

And if anyone has a jeweler's cloth to polish a diamond like Ryan Griffin, it's Sean Payton, and it'll make you proud when he shines after the realization that Drew can't throw a 50 yard-in-the-air strike effectively anymore...

TheOak 02-28-2014 04:20 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 579897)


Right.



But Wilson was drafted in the third round...



There talking about these guys in the first round...



Look, I hope these teams burn a 1R pick on a short QB...



I just don't want MY team burning a first rounder on a QB unless he's a proto-type passer, 6-3 or better, cannon for an arm and one of Dan Marino's Love Ilk...



And, if'n he's under that, he better smoke jokes that can't run a 4.4 with 'em if he's gonna take our first round pick in a draft...


Mettenberger?

Kerwin on NFLSirius interviewed him yesterday, good kid and prototypical pocket passer with an arm.

jeanpierre 02-28-2014 05:19 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 579933)
Mettenberger?

Kerwin on NFLSirius interviewed him yesterday, good kid and prototypical pocket passer with an arm.

Man, this is when you wish you could sit in on the interviews...

I've got questions about his moxie, big questions...

TheOak 02-28-2014 07:38 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 579939)
Man, this is when you wish you could sit in on the interviews...

I've got questions about his moxie, big questions...

He was articulate, when asked which NFL QB he most resembles... He played the cards well.

Names no one.. Went on to sell him self as a picket passer that can take a hit with out fear. Admitted he isn't a "mobile QB by today's standards (Wilson/Kaepernick), but is athletic and mobile like a Brees/Manning/Brady, he even elaborated and said he is not going to break out a 40 yard run like Manziel but he will move 12" to make a defensive player miss".

6'5", great touch, long arm, moves up in the pocket when he "feels" pressure so he has great pocket awareness.

I am not an LSU homer, if i watched any college games last year it was watching the Manziel circus act.

K Major 02-28-2014 08:40 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 579939)
Man, this is when you wish you could sit in on the interviews...

I've got questions about his moxie, big questions...

Some may laugh but I actually think Zach will be a capable backup & possible starter at the NFL level. Yes I'm a LSU grad and homer but he has excellent 'zip and accuracy' on a lot of his throws. One of my few knocks on him the past two seasons has been his decision making in the pocket when it collapses & that he likes to stare down guys (Odell and Landry) too much for my taste.... all correctable with proper coaching.

Keep a lazy eye on this kid down the road.

papz 02-28-2014 08:52 AM

Re: 2014 NFL Draft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 579952)
He was articulate, when asked which NFL QB he most resembles... He played the cards well.

Names no one.. Went on to sell him self as a picket passer that can take a hit with out fear. Admitted he isn't a "mobile QB by today's standards (Wilson/Kaepernick), but is athletic and mobile like a Brees/Manning/Brady, he even elaborated and said he is not going to break out a 40 yard run like Manziel but he will move 12" to make a defensive player miss".

6'5", great touch, long arm, moves up in the pocket when he "feels" pressure so he has great pocket awareness.
Zach Mettenberger || 2013 Highlights

I am not an LSU homer, if i watched any college games last year it was watching the Manziel circus act.

He's your traditional QB prospect. IMO, he still has a lot of work to do on his touch, but he has a bazooka arm and everything else you mentioned. Plus, he's been coached by Cam Cameron and very familiar with a pro style offense. His improvement under one year of tutelage from Cam was significant... and impressive. If he wasn't hurt, I honestly feel that he's one of the most pro ready and top quarterbacks in this draft.


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