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-   -   2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects (https://blackandgold.com/saints/96746-2020-nfl-draft-saints-prospects.html)

jeanpierre 02-20-2020 09:36 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 880242)
Yes, Stills was eventually traded, but he was part of the offer to pick up Unger. It was the Seahawks who countered with including Graham instead. I can't remember the exact source, but I remember reading or hearing about that exchange. It may have been John Clayton who practically lives in the Seattle camp.

As for the Graham as WR affair, that was orchestrated by the NFLPA to challenge the designations within the Franchise Tag. It was their lawyers fighting the fight. The PA knew the definition of player positions was getting muddied. The line between an outside LB and a DE is disappearing with teams using different packages on a play by play basis, yet the tag level differs by $2M. TE's are leading teams in receptions, etc, at $5M per year less than WR's on the tag. The PA lost that appeal and his tag was designated as a TE. The Saints and Graham worked out a new deal shortly thereafter.
May be wrong but I seem to remember you RT/reporting that angle off the CBS Sirius show; maybe Pat Kirwin? Fuzzy...

And I remember "factchecking" that take as well and it was also a valid option that was out there...

But things that were most assuredly true...

The Saints wanted to be rid of Kenny Stills and his drama...

That Saints salary cap plan was to allow to pay Graham as an elite Tight End, not an elite Wide Receiver...

The Saints wanted an elite Center that Seattle had...

Jimmy Graham took to social media airing his frustrations with the Saints which is a non-starter with the Payton Front Office; Graham eventually apologized for his behaviour...

Saints won terrifically on the Unger vs Graham component of the trade...

Saints eventually lost on the draft pick exchange as they took Stephone Anthony in Round One; Seattle used the fourth round pick in trade package with the Redskins to select WR Tyler Lockett in the third round...

Disclosure: I accurately advocated Stephone; Anthony was named to PFWA All-Rookie Team; Anthony scored the first Defensive 2Pt Conversion in NFL History; he busted following year when Dennis Allen became DC...

AsylumGuido 02-20-2020 11:18 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 880317)
May be wrong but I seem to remember you RT/reporting that angle off the CBS Sirius show; maybe Pat Kirwin? Fuzzy...

And I remember "factchecking" that take as well and it was also a valid option that was out there...

But things that were most assuredly true...

The Saints wanted to be rid of Kenny Stills and his drama...

That Saints salary cap plan was to allow to pay Graham as an elite Tight End, not an elite Wide Receiver...

The Saints wanted an elite Center that Seattle had...

Jimmy Graham took to social media airing his frustrations with the Saints which is a non-starter with the Payton Front Office; Graham eventually apologized for his behaviour...

Saints won terrifically on the Unger vs Graham component of the trade...

Saints eventually lost on the draft pick exchange as they took Stephone Anthony in Round One; Seattle used the fourth round pick in trade package with the Redskins to select WR Tyler Lockett in the third round...

Disclosure: I accurately advocated Stephone; Anthony was named to PFWA All-Rookie Team; Anthony scored the first Defensive 2Pt Conversion in NFL History; he busted following year when Dennis Allen became DC...
It may very well have been Pat Kirwan. Kirwan is close friends with Pete Carroll having coached with him in the past. John Clayton has co-hosted with Kirwan on several occasions so that would make sense as the source. The two of them have more insight into the workings of the Seahawks than anyone. Trade scenarios are a specialty of Kirwan's, as well, given his time as director of player administration with the Jets where he negotiated contracts and managed the cap. He is a real fountain of NFL knowledge.

K Major 02-21-2020 08:18 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Tyler Johnson - WR Minnesota

Dynamic, good route ability & solid hands to keep the chains moving.

K Major 02-21-2020 08:22 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Keep hearing NFL analyst/scouts say that the 2020 WR class is so deep and talented with prospects, most teams should be able to find a "difference maker & immediate contributor" all the way through round 4.

K Major 02-21-2020 08:27 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Denzell Mims - WR BAYLOR

Size comparable to Michael Thomas. Big hands, can win most 50/50 balls. Has a dawg mentality. Expects to win every time he lines up against a cornerback.

Recent analyst on Mims at the Senior bowl.

Has put forth the best performance of all the wideouts here. He has simply looked flawless. A long-legged vertical threat, his immense catch radius has been on full display and stop/start skills are much better than advertised. He eats up space with ease and his size and physicality have caused trouble for corners all week, especially when stacking press coverage at the line.

ChrisXVI 02-21-2020 08:53 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 880393)
Tyler Johnson - WR Minnesota

Dynamic, good route ability & solid hands to keep the chains moving.

The Most Underrated Wide Receiver In College Football | Tyler Johnson Minnesota Highlights á´´á´° - YouTube
This one right here... this is a guy the Saints will be all over. One of the best route runners in this draft class.

neugey 02-21-2020 08:56 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 880405)
This one right here... this is a guy the Saints will be all over. One of the best route runners in this draft class.

He looks like Young CantGuardMike!

K Major 02-21-2020 09:08 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Chase Claypool - WR Notre Dame

I'm staying with theme of showcasing BIG WR's ... kid is 6'4 1/2, 225, long arms & willing to block.

Recent write up on CC :
NFL.com draft analyst Lance Zierlein named Claypool the "biggest winner" of the Senior Bowl practices.

"I really enjoyed watching Claypool on tape and couldn't wait to see him perform in person on the Senior Bowl stage. I was not disappointed, and neither were the NFL evaluators in attendance. Not only does he look the part of a big, imposing receiver, he showed off how fluid and natural he is with his movement. He snatched the ball away from his frame with strong hands and created separation using his size and athleticism. The easy comparison for him is former teammate Miles Boykin, who had the same type of size and explosiveness, but Boykin went to the Baltimore Ravens at the end of the third round in last year's draft. Claypool may not last that long now. I think he pushed himself into Round 2 this week."

ChrisXVI 02-21-2020 09:33 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
I like the big slot WR’s in the class like Justin Jefferson and Tyler Johnson. I know we need a Z-receiver but I don’t want to use a first round pick on some of the undersized guys with poorer route running and questionable hands just because they’re fast.

K Major 02-21-2020 09:42 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 880415)
I like the big slot WR’s in the class like Justin Jefferson and Tyler Johnson. I know we need a Z-receiver but I don’t want to use a first round pick on some of the undersized guys with poorer route running and questionable hands just because they’re fast.
Fair point XVI.

Do you target a slot guy in FA or the draft?

As for JJ, if for whatever reason he falls and he's the best player available on my draft board @ #24 ... he's my guy.

ChrisXVI 02-21-2020 10:20 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 880416)
Fair point XVI.

Do you target a slot guy in FA or the draft?

As for JJ, if for whatever reason he falls and he's the best player available on my draft board @ #24 ... he's my guy.
I’m not sure there’s a free agent WR worth signing. I guess Breshad Perriman is intriguing but the Bucs have about $90 mil in cap space so they’ll have no problem keeping him if they want.

I think we’re still going to end up pretty one-dimensional at WR because a rookie would take time to learn and carve out a role. That’s why I’m really high on Jefferson because he has some familiarity with our offense and that could make him productive sooner.

K Major 02-21-2020 10:47 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 880424)
I’m not sure there’s a free agent WR worth signing. I guess Breshad Perriman is intriguing but the Bucs have about $90 mil in cap space so they’ll have no problem keeping him if they want.

I think we’re still going to end up pretty one-dimensional at WR because a rookie would take time to learn and carve out a role. That’s why I’m really high on Jefferson because he has some familiarity with our offense and that could make him productive sooner.
I'll take a superior route runner (see Mike Thomas/Deondre' Hopkins) over pure speed any day.

Jefferson was one of the first NFL WR prospects I posted here. Not because of the school but because of his production and ability. He's proven that he can play inside and outside but more importantly ... he can create separation & consistently win in man coverage.

Side note - I also like "Viska" Shenault from Colorado. He got good coaching here in High School (De Soto, TX), improved a lot in college and I now see him as a mixture between Taysom/Kamara. I see a "fit" here in NO.

Some early comparisons are to Cooper Kupp.

jeanpierre 02-23-2020 12:16 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 878156)
Mel Kiper Mock Draft 1.0

1) Bengals: Burrow
2) Redskins: Young
3) Lions: Jeff Okudah
4) Giants: Isiah Simmons
5) Dolphins: Tua
6) Chargers: Justin Herbert
7) Panthers: Derrick Brown
8) Cardinals: Andrew Thomas
9) Jaguars: Javon Kinlaw
10) Browns: Mekhi Becton
11) Jets: Jedrick Wills
12) Raiders: CeeDee Lamb
13) Colts: Jerry Jeudy
14) Bucs: Tristan Wirfs
15) Broncos: Henry Ruggs III
16) Falcons: AJ Epensa
17) Cowboys: CJ Henderson
18) Dolphins: K’lavon Chaisson
19) Raiders: Kenneth Murray
20) Jaguars: Cole Kmet
21) Eagles: Tee Higgins
22) Bills: Laviska Shenault Jr
23) Patriots: Xavier McKinney
24) Saints: Jordan Love
25) Vikings: Josh Jones
26) Dolphins: D’Andre Swift
27) Seahawks: Zack Baun
28) Ravens: Patrick Queen
29) Titans: Yetur Gross-Matos
30) Packers: KJ Hamler
31) 49ers: Grand Delpit
32) Chiefs: Noah Igbinoghene
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 878206)
Not no, but F*ck No! The 2020 First Round Pick needs to contribute now...
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 878249)
But to put it in proper perspective, Pat Mahommes virtually sat out all of his rookie (pick #10 of the 1st rd) season. Fast forward 2 years later, Pat has them in the Super Bowl.

if he's your guy, he's your guy.
Quarterbacks are the exception...

ChrisXVI 02-23-2020 12:28 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
In Kiper’s mock 2.0 he gives us Auburn CB Noah Igbinoghene.

jeanpierre 02-23-2020 01:48 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 880505)
In Kiper’s mock 2.0 he gives us Auburn CB Noah Igbinoghene.
As deep as the WR class is - that makes lots of sense as CB was definitely an area of need...

That said, there's no way Payton can't see what Jalen Reagor could do opposite Thomas...

Wouldn't spend a first round pick on a Guard, so, yeah, I can see CB or DL in the first round, if we stay there...

jeanpierre 02-24-2020 09:57 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 

K Major 02-24-2020 10:01 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Austin Jackson - OL USC

jeanpierre 02-24-2020 10:03 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 880542)
Austin Jackson - OL USC

Austin Jackson Highlights - YouTube
Get that Charles White Déjà vu...

jeanpierre 02-24-2020 10:04 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 

jeanpierre 02-24-2020 10:07 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 

jeanpierre 02-24-2020 10:31 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 

jeanpierre 02-24-2020 11:42 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 

jeanpierre 02-24-2020 12:12 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 

ChrisXVI 02-24-2020 01:57 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 880562)
Jake Fromm with 8 7/8” hands?! That’s not good at all.

AsylumGuido 02-24-2020 02:24 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 880570)
Jake Fromm with 8 7/8” hands?! That’s not good at all.
It's only an 1/8" smaller than Joe Burrow. You think that 1/8" makes much difference?

K Major 02-24-2020 03:19 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 880572)
It's only an 1/8" smaller than Joe Burrow. You think that 1/8" makes much difference?
By NFL standards yes & also depends what NFL coach/GM you ask ... for year's coach Payton's bench mark has been 9.

And Jake Fromm is no J Burrow.

ChrisXVI 02-24-2020 03:27 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 880572)
It's only an 1/8" smaller than Joe Burrow. You think that 1/8" makes much difference?
Every fraction of an inch matters in the pros.

dam1953 02-24-2020 03:46 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 880574)
Every fraction of an inch matters in the pros.
Is that what she said?

ChrisXVI 02-24-2020 06:11 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2...t-news-rumors/

12:28 PM ET (via Ben Allbright): There is increasing chatter at the NFL Combine regarding the Carolina Panthers and them making a move up the draft board for the first overall pick. The feeling within some NFL circles is that there is some legitimacy to this rumor. Allbright and PFN are working to uncover more details on this situation.

Now this is interesting. If the Panthers trade Cam Newton they could easily have the draft capital to move up from #7 to #1. It’s easy to connect the dots with Joe Brady running Carolina’s offense now.

neugey 02-24-2020 09:50 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
People reading this much into 1/8 of an inch hand size? This is the kind of combine BS that cracks me up. Watch some film and see what their footwork in the pocket is like, that matters 100 times more IMO.

jeanpierre 02-25-2020 07:26 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 

AsylumGuido 02-25-2020 07:50 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neugey (Post 880595)
People reading this much into 1/8 of an inch hand size? This is the kind of combine BS that cracks me up. Watch some film and see what their footwork in the pocket is like, that matters 100 times more IMO.

K Major 02-25-2020 08:16 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Bryan Edwards - WR South Carolina

Size (same as Mike Thomas), good route runner & strong. Doesn't get a lot of hype as some of the others but his ability could translate at the next level. Has played against stiff SEC defenses & has done well.

Could be a "sleeper" pick.

K Major 02-25-2020 08:24 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
I think Bama WR Henry Ruggs will still be on the board @ #24.

Kind of wonder what Sean Payton is thinking here ... will he go DL, RB, QB or OL ? Some "mocks" have him taking a WR ...

The combine and Pro Day will be telling for a lot of these players.

K Major 02-25-2020 11:54 AM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Devin Duvernay - WR Texas

Thought I'd bring him back because Devin's name has been mentioned more than a couple of times by scouts.

Not a big guy (5-11) however he makes up for it with his speed. Former track guy who has a lot of power & the ability to win a lot of those 50/50 balls. Strong hands, is willing to block & has the run after catch ability. Chain mover.

Again, he's a track guy so I'm watching him at the combine 40.

Best tape (12 catches) 2019 - LSU


neugey 02-25-2020 03:04 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 880612)
Devin Duvernay - WR Texas

Thought I'd bring him back because Devin's name has been mentioned more than a couple of times by scouts.

Not a big guy (5-11) however he makes up for it with his speed. Former track guy who has a lot of power & the ability to win a lot of those 50/50 balls. Strong hands, is willing to block & has the run after catch ability. Chain mover.

Again, he's a track guy so I'm watching him at the combine 40.

Best tape (12 catches) 2019 - LSU

Texas WR Devin Duvernay Highlight Reel - 2019 Season | Stadium - YouTube

As a Longhorns fan I think Devin's greatest asset are his hands. His speed is decent, but at heart he is a catch-everything guy ... a Lance Moore type with a higher ceiling and a bit more athletic. My main question is the quality of route running and getting open at the next level.

K Major 02-25-2020 03:25 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neugey (Post 880618)
As a Longhorns fan I think Devin's greatest asset are his hands. His speed is decent, but at heart he is a catch-everything guy ... a Lance Moore type with a higher ceiling and a bit more athletic. My main question is the quality of route running and getting open at the next level.
Yessir.

I felt the same way about Trequan (getting open in the NFL) coming out of college. Devin's size is a bit misleading ... very powerful lower body & as you stated .. "powerful" hands.

The combine and subsequent Pro Day at UT awaits.

jeanpierre 02-25-2020 03:57 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 



https://media.giphy.com/media/10sXTCdlsdKn8k/giphy.gif

jeanpierre 02-25-2020 03:58 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
And the f*ck-f*ck mind games are underway...

The Dude 02-25-2020 04:29 PM
Re: 2020 NFL Draft: Saints Prospects
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 880597)
I’m really starting to hate Burrow.


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